Cycling with un-cured live rock....

[UFGator]

Woa Sam. Hold on. Are you sure you want to kill those bristle worms? I have heard many GOOD things about BRs. They are good sand stirrers and they eat detritis in the tank. I have actually put 2 in my tank (from a friend) to get things started. You might want to read up on these little buggers... I'll test my tank today and let you know the parms...
Joel

[npaden]

Hey guys, thought I would chime in on your discussion.

First off, cycling a new tank by curing your live rock in the tank is a tried and true method and in my opinion is one of the best ways to set up a new tank. (that's how I just cycled my new tank)

A couple notes based on your posts back and forth:

Natural sea water that is around the reefs that our organisms are pulled from has a salinity of around 36 - 38 ppt and temperatures run in the 80 to 82 degree range with some fairly decent swings up down 75 or 76 and up to 85 or 86 fairly regularly. I try to simulate natural reef salinity and temperatures in my tank and shoot for a temperature range of 80 - 82 and a corresponding specific gravity of 1.026.

Sam - I agree with Brooke that you should be careful using tap water. In some regions of the country tap water can be okay if it is really good quality tap water, but in many regions of the country you will run into big time problems just by using tap water as your source water. Also I agree with Joel that 99% of all bristle worms are beneficial and you want them in your tank. Sounds like your cycle is going well. Ammonia spiked and nitrites are increasing now.

Joel, Sometimes if you are using fresh live rock and live sand you can set up a tank with no spikes and you never really go through a cycle. This doesn't means that your tank doesn't have the nessessary bacteria to cycle the tank - it means that you had so many of them that lived on the rock and sand and the rock that you had didn't have so many things die on it that it overwhelmed the bacteria to the point that it lead to a spike. I'm not sure on your pinpoint salinity monitor - sounds like it is acting funny to me.

Oh well, thought I would just throw my 2 cents in for you guys. Later, Nathan

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: npaden ]

[platapus]

Guys - I have heard mixed things about bristle worm, some good, some bad, I will just leave them alone for now I have also spotted some little tiny snails developing too One another note, there are small patches of what looks like a white mold growing on my LR?? ( It looks like that really dense web that some spiders cacoon up in) Dont know if this is good or bad? I have been conditioning the tap water that I use.

I have a friend that has been using this same water source as me for his 150g tank for 4 years, and has been a sucsess - I will be watching everything closly though, and move to RO if problems develop.

I expected my spikes to be higher for some reason, but to me it looks like Im cycling, maybe they are lower because of the live rock and sand? The rock I was able to attain had only been in the LFS tank for 1 day, and looked alive with lots of debree on it ( did not look very clean)

Anyway - I tested again things dont change much in 2 days, but here it is:

Date - Temp - Salinity - PH - Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate - Notes
09-15-01 - 80 f - 1.021 - 8.2 - 4.0 - 1.0 - 10.0 - Day 2 of Cycle
09-17-01 - 78 f - 1.022 - 8.1 - 2.0 - 2.0 - 10.0 - Day 4 of Cycle
09-19-01 - 79 f - 1.023 - 8.0 - 0.1 - 2.0 - 15.0 - Day 6 of Cycle
09-21-01 - 79 f - 1.022 - 8.2 - 0.1 - 2.0 - 20.0 - Day 8 of Cycle

You can see that I added some water to make up for the evaporation, my salinity went back down, and PH up! Only about 2 gallons!

Im curious to see your results today Joel? That would be cool if you had no spikes like npaden was saying?

Here is a link to the fungi that im growing, if anyone has any input on this I would appreciate it!

http://www.bluechunks.net:81/reef/IM_092101.html


later on - sam

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: platapus ]

[UFGator]

Hi Sam,
I got called out of town on business all this week so I won't be able to check the parameters of the aquarium. I think I'll try to walk my wife through it... If she can handle it, I'll update with parms. One problem I seem to be having is not matter how much fresh DI water I add, the salinity never seems to go down. I have swapped out over 3 gallons and added over 2 gallons????
Joel

[platapus]

NP - I just tested, and....well, looks like Im done! Took me 12 days with uncured live rock and live sand:

TEMP: 80 f - need to bring that down
SALINITY: 1.022
PH: 8.3 - would like to bring that down
AMMONIA: 0.0 - I tested twice
NITRITE: 0.0
NITRATE: 10.0
PHOSPHATE: 0.50

My tank in now blooming with brown algae, I hope that is slows down!

I have stats on a website if anyone is intrested!

http://www.bluechunks.net:81/reef

- sam

[UFGator]

Hi Sam,
Sorry it took me so long to update, but I was out of town all week. When I got back there was little or no water in the sump and my pump was almost burned out. After yelling at my wife I fixed everything... Here are my parms...

Amonia/Nitrite/Nitrate = 0
Temp 76.3 { I guess winter is coming }
Phosphate 0
PH 8.22
Salinity 51.1 { still too high }
ALK/KH 8.3DKH
Oxygen 5 mg/L {this seems low. Don't know what to do about this. Might have been because the pump wasn't working for several hours}

I have a BUNCH of green (hair?) algea on the glass (not on the rocks). I guess you just get more snails to eat it???? Does anyone know what the best are?

Joel

[platapus]

lol - did you check your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

For the algae. I use use turbo snails, I have a 100g, and 15 snails, they clean house pretty good!

-sam

[Doug1]

interesting thread guys, I wish it wasnt so muddled with code, but anyway.
The live rock and accompanying dieoff will provide both the ammonia and bacteria to produce the cycle, no additional additives needed.
Cycling with the lights on will encourage algae growth that will absorb excess nitrogen compounds, but you will need to export the algae till the system is mature enough to recycle them in a more normal fashion
You might want to boost salinity to 1.025 or so, closer to natural sea water, though if you are using a swing arm to measure they can range from OK to way off. A refractometer is much more accurate. At the very least you might consider getting a TropicMarin hydrometer to compare the swing arm to. Also soak it in vinegar occasionally and rinse it with RO water to keep mineral buildup off it.
I gotta agree with Brooke, tap water is prolly the leading cause of ongoing problems down the road. Anything in the water stays in the tank and builds up as water evaporates. Your phosphate may be coming from tap water or highly likely it is a by product of the decomposition proccess. The acid by products could also account for lower pH, however that will improve over time and buffering will help to. Its normal for pH to fall at night and be at the high point late in the day after lights on all day. Don't worry about the number but do watch the trend. If its is low midday(measured with monitor) then you may want to start using a buffer. FWIW test kits for pH are not very accurate at best.
Other than that sounds like things are on track, and 81.5 isnt a bad temp for a reef tank

[Doug1]

Hmmmm. I guess I shoulda read both pages first;-) but anyway the bristeworms will be ok, they major detrivores and a good thing.
The brown stuff are diatoms and normal in a newer tank, they will diminish as the silicic(sp) is depleted, then the green algaes will start in with a vengence. More snails and detrivores are needed. If you are using tap water it may take a long time to get a handle on the algae, depending whats in it. Water conditioners basically dechlorinate but do nothing to remove nitrate,phosphate, or any other pollutants.
Starting off with RO/Di water will eliminate that source as a problem area. You will get alot of stuff leach out from the rock and as a result of dieoff initially. As the system increases the populations of beneficial bacteria and the detrivores and infauna increase they will reach a point where the available nutrients will balance with the tanks bio ability to cycle the nutrients, at least to a greater extent. You will still have to do water changes to help dilute build up and replentish trace elements. Welcome to the fascinating world of reef keeping