Cyanide Tang?

[Saltmeister]

I purchased a yellow tang about a week ago, he looked a little skinny but I just thought that the store wasn't feeding him properly (mistake). I got him home and put him in my QT with 3 green chromis. The chromis are doing great but my tang is listless. He was eating pretty good but still seemed to be getting thinner and loosing color. All parms are at 0 and temp is 78. What's the culprate?

[Saltmeister]

Seriously guys, my tang is dying at this very moment... just wondering what I should do?

[skeety]

not much you can do.

It could be any number of factors.

You water parameters?

You acclimation process?

Stress from capture?

Stress from Travel (from LFS to your house)?

Disease? Abuse from other fish?

We need more details to help you.

In the mean time, get some dried sea-weed...and some fresh garlic.


Get a clove of garlic preped (break it off, remove skin).

Take a shot glass or something small, scoop out some of your tank water.

Take a butter knife, and smoosh the garlic clove (breaking it open, but trying to keep it in pieces you can remove).

Drop the garlic clove in the shot-glass.

Take the dried seaweed, roll it up, and stick it in the water.

Let the garlic soaked water seep into the seaweed for about 10-15 min.

Then feed the seaweed to the tang. (either via a suction cupped clip, or tieing it around a rock with gum-bands or sewing thread).

Repeat this every two or three days (no MORE, or you'll have algae problems in your tank).

while doing this...tell us details. What are you water parms? How did you aclimate the fish to your tank? What all do you have in the tank? thoughts on all the possible reasons for his slow demise.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Seriously guys, my tang is dying at this very moment... just wondering what I should do?

also...I understand your frustration...but keep in mind, you posted pretty late. Just wanted you to know I'm sure no one was ignoring you, just a matter of timing.

[Saltmeister]

Thanks. Well, I tried garlic the other day just as a precautionary method. All params are 0. I acclimated him for an hour. He was eating really good but just kept getting skinnier. I didn't see any external parasites. I had him in a 10g QT with a bare bottom, a 3lb peice of live rock and flower pot to hide in, 1 pepermint shrimp and 3 (small) chromis. Could it have been internal? I checked on him this morn and he was dead. I know I shouldn't have purchased him, but we don't get hawaiian's too often around here, so I thought I'd give her a try. Bummer.

[tims]

i would contact the LFS you got him from. ask them where he came from, if it is wild caught then not much could have ben done. they still do use cyanide to trap or caught many fish. if you can ask if it or any fish your get was tank raised, they usally run a few dollars more but in the end you have a fish that should be pretty healthy.
sorry for your loss.

[craigGP]

everyone should get in the habit of asking if the fish they are buying are cyanide caught fish. you'll get lots of blank stares, but making sure the LFS knows this issue is a concern to their customers might make some LFS try harder to avoid cyanide caught fish. there is no way to be absolutely sure if any fish is cyanide caught or not, but good LFS know the dealers they are doing business with and should have a good idea of where the fish are coming from. for example, south pacific fish are frequently cyanide caught (and cheaper), while the same fish that come from hawiian waters are usually netted. choosing their suppliers properly can increase the probability of cyanide free specimens.

if your LFS is a good one, they are aware of this issue. they do their best to avoid cyanide caught fish, and will appreciate a customer who cares enough to ask. its a great way to build a respectful relationship with someone who you need to be able to trust, separating you from the average mind-numb customer they deal with.

[JennM]

Sorry about your loss.

First off, there is NO cyanide use in Hawaii, and Yellow Tangs ONLY come from there, so that shouldn't be a concern in this particular specimen. If you still have the body, you could cut it open to see if it had intestinal worms - I've found Nasos occasionally infested, many sleeper gobies are prone to these too.

If we have a fish that should be fat and is emaciated, despite a good appetite, we put Metronidizole in the food. Now Jungle makes a pelleted food that has Metronidazole and Lavamisol in it, which are both great de-wormers. That usually does the trick and the fish fattens up normally henceforth.

As for cyanide caught fish - anyone who has been here for a while knows my soap-box stance against destructive fishing practices. You can ask all you want but no LFS *knowingly* brings in cyanide caught fish, and if they didn't they sure as heck wouldn't admit it. Ditto with the wholelsalers - every wholesaler in the country will swear on a stack of Bibles that they only buy net-caught fish (yep, they do use a net after they squirt the fish with cyanide!)... some wholesalers may be naive, but some just turn a blind eye, as do the governments of the exporting countries of these damaged fish - not to mention the damage done to the reefs in the wake of the juicer.... but I digress...

Personally I don't buy any Phillippine fish at all - and very limited Indonesian ones, from one trusted supplier. It all boils down to trust, there is no test in place currently to detect cyanide, and the only test that is available anyway, has to be done post-mortem so it's a moot point then, unless doing spot checks or batch testing.

Best bet is to keep to fish that come from places like Hawaii, Solomons, Fiji, Tonga, Christmas Island, Marshall Islands etc. Even Caribbean fish are drugged sometimes, albeit with Quinaldine, not cyanide.

Juice fishing is the trade's dirty little secret Many would have you believe that the problem ended in the 70s and 80s but it didn't. It's still rampant in PI and Indo.

OK... soap box mode /off

Jenn

[Loverotties]

Jenns right thats all you herd back in the 70's 80's and they stop preaching it but they still do it.Well next time look for a good thck one and if you want pay for it and pick it up in a week to see if it looks different and then deside.Sorry for your loss.

[Twitterbait]

There is also a Disease/condition that all fish are subject to that can be the culprit as well. it is not well known either. it is a condition where the stress from being caught and during shipping causes damage to the fishes digestive system. it is virtually impossable to tell because you can get the fish in and it will eat but it is unable to digest the food. fish with this condition can live as much as 3-4 weeks sometimes but they are essentially starving to death.
Another problem in this trade is how the fish are treated when the wholesaler gets them from the supplier. Because of the volume of fish coming in sometimes the fish are handled very roughly with little to no acclimation. some wholesalers just toss a bunch of fish in a bin and then grab them out by hand and toss them in the tank.
So the best bet when buying a fish is to make the LFS feed them so you are sure they are eating and also make sure that the fish isn't skinney or malnourshed.

Sorry to hear about the loss.

[craigGP]

thanks JennM for giving your side of the cyanide issue. i hoped you'd find this thread. i don't think any LFS would go out of their way to intentionally order a cyanide caught fish. i do think that less scrupulous stores turn a blind eye and order from the less expensive exporters, knowing fully well that the fish from indonesia or phillipines are most likely cyanide caught. anything to make extra profit... and there are probably way more stores out there that work this way than do it the right way- your way.

i don't own or work for a LFS, but i'm fairly close to and had deep conversations with owners of highly regarded and ethical stores on this topic. i'm aware that hawiian fish should all be cyanide free, but you can't be sure that some of their fish are not brought into the islands from elsewhere... no LFS can be absolutely sure that they are not buying cyanide caught fish. nor can any exporter. there is no test that can be done or law that can be enforced to ensure this. it is a matter of knowing your suppliers and having a trusting relationship that they do their best to minimize the chance of a cyanide caught fish making it into their shipments. buying fish from regions of the world where this practice is not prevalent is about the best you can do.

my point is that those in this hobby should make themselves aware of this issue, research and understand it. make sure that your LFS knows its important to you. hope that this info sinks in and they take this into consideration when placing their next orders. personally, i can usually tell if someone is blowing smoke by the way they answer the question. if nothing else, maybe it helps you, the customer, decide where to spend your money. maybe this is old news on TRT, but i've not seen it mentioned since i got here a few months ago. its a worthy discussion to have periodically so those new to the hobby and new to TRT will be sure to see it.

jenn, i don't want to come across as picking on you or singling you out, but you are the only LFS owner/employee (that i know of) that speaks up here. i'm curious how often a customer walks into your store and asks you where your fish come from and if they are cyanide caught. how would you perceive that customer and what do you think your future relationship with that customer would be? i'd bet there would be a large helping of respect and gratitude that they care enough about the hobby to bring their concern to your attention.

craig

[Saltmeister]

Thank you all for your wonderful replies... I kind knew about cyanide, and I'm not saying that the tang I had was caught that way (could have been one of the factors you each had mentioned), and I have asked about it at the LFS, but they just have a bunch of teens working the place and I'm not exactly sure if they even know what's going on! The just say, "naaaa", what kind of answer is that? I've talked to the owner of the store and to me, it seems like HE doesn't really know what he's doing either. The shame is, where I am, I'm limited. Honestly, I only buy corals from there and I stopped buying fish. The bad thing is, is that they sell mostly butterflies and a good portion of his costumers are newbies. It's kinda like they get the B/F in so people will buy them, knowing (LFS) that most won't survive, but the costomers keep coming back after their loss for the same fish!!!! Makes me sick. Anyways, not to get off track, I won't make the same mistake twice and I WILL throw out more questions for my LFS. Thanks.

[Tasher80]

All I have to say is Sorry about your loss. I had a yellow tang die within 24 hrs of recieving mine. It was probably the stress because I went back to the LFS the next day and they gave me a new one and 1 1/2 years later hes still with me.