Crushed coral vs. sand substrate?

[reef madman]

hello all. just wanting to get some views (pro's & cons) on using cc vs sand substrate. just setting up my newly purchased 55g future reef tank. i did purchase cc when i bought the tank but now having second thoughts. just strating reading this forum and it seems like everyone uses sand as substrate. since i hace cc already would it hurt if i mixed it with sand and add to tank as substrate? also, seems like many different views as to depth of the substrate? is everything just a matter of preferance as to substrate and depth to use, or is there really benefits of one over the other? thanks for any help. just the start i'm sure of many more questions i will have.

[skeety]

I use CC, but still wonder myself.

From what I've heard, Sand is better....but trickier.

a DSB (Deep sand bed) can become a form of filtration itself (so can CC, but no where near as efficiently). Much like live rock, the DSB has layers with no oxygen, which is where the stuff that turns Nitrate into Nitrogen gas lives (water changes don't need to be as frequent).

However...with an established SB, for the reasons I just mentioned, you can NEVER mixup the sand. The stuff that's in the deepest layers contains chemicals that would be POISONOUS to the fish. So if something creates enough turbulence to move that sand around, or you ever sift through it, or go to move it, you'll run into a lot of problems.

CC is easier, and depending on your inhabitants/decor, might look nicer. It's a bit more work, in that you should vacumn it, but if this is your first tank, might want to start out with CC. Others will chime in to add more, or correct me where I may be wrong...so just keep checking back.

Welcome, and Good luck!

[OodleyBoodely]

CC will trap detritus which has to be vacumed regularly to keep it clean. It gets nasty quick and will trap dirt under the rockwork where you can't vacum it properly. The trapped crud will play havoc with you water quality by releasing phosphates and nitrates into the system to feed nuisance algaes. Fine sand (thin layer or deep 4+")will also trap crud, but, tends to absorb it like a sponge until it reaches saturation (average dsb lasts 1.5 -3 years before replacement needed) at which point it also will release phosphate and nitrate back into the system.


Something to keep in mind if this is your first reef tank is that what kind of coral you intend to keep should determine what kind of substrate (if any) that you use. Sandbeds (fine or CC) create high nutrient systems that are ideal for most soft corals and lps corals but not for sps. Most hard corals (sps and some lps) require very low nutrient systems to thrive and sandbeds make this very difficult to acheive. Bare bottom systems allow removal of detritus befor it can become trapped causing water quality problems. If you do a search under 'phosphate', 'dsb', and 'barebottom' you should pull up plenty of threads discussing these issues.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by skeety

I use CC, but still wonder myself.

From what I've heard, Sand is better....but trickier.

a DSB (Deep sand bed) can become a form of filtration itself (so can CC, but no where near as efficiently). Much like live rock, the DSB has layers with no oxygen, which is where the stuff that turns Nitrate into Nitrogen gas lives (water changes don't need to be as frequent).

However...with an established SB, for the reasons I just mentioned, you can NEVER mixup the sand. The stuff that's in the deepest layers contains chemicals that would be POISONOUS to the fish. So if something creates enough turbulence to move that sand around, or you ever sift through it, or go to move it, you'll run into a lot of problems.

CC is easier, and depending on your inhabitants/decor, might look nicer. It's a bit more work, in that you should vacumn it, but if this is your first tank, might want to start out with CC. Others will chime in to add more, or correct me where I may be wrong...so just keep checking back.

Welcome, and Good luck!

****! I just stired up my sand, thought I was doing a good thing. 10min.ago.

[mwanttie]

I am looking at the same thing. What about mixing the CC and the sand? Like 50/50?

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by mwanttie

I am looking at the same thing. What about mixing the CC and the sand? Like 50/50?

you can do it, but you do not gain anything. the sands will separate on their own over time due to mass.

why not go BB?

G~

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by offshore

****! I just stired up my sand, thought I was doing a good thing. 10min.ago.

how deep is your sand? how long has the SB been setup?

if the sand is less than 2-3" then not a big deal. same thing if the SB has only been setup for less than 6 months. this also only applies to sugar fine sand. if it was CC than it just makes your tank really dirty.

G~

[mwanttie]

I just don't like the look of BB. I would go completely with sand but I already bought 120 lbs of CC. After reading on this site for a few months I bought 80 lbs of Aragonite sand. I was going to mix 80 lbs of CC with 80 lbs of sand. I just feel like it's a waste if I don't use the CC. Can the inverts still sift through it if it is mixed?

[Geoff]

it all depends on the critter. most of the time they will find a way to move around.

if you must use sand then i would stay with only 1-2" at most.

G~

[offshore]

Originally Posted by Geoff

how deep is your sand? how long has the SB been setup?

if the sand is less than 2-3" then not a big deal. same thing if the SB has only been setup for less than 6 months. this also only applies to sugar fine sand. if it was CC than it just makes your tank really dirty.

G~

The sand is around 3-4" deep, around 6mo. old but it is NOT sugar fine more like rough beach sand. I stired it up to run any gunk I could get up to run through my NEW uv sterilizer.

[Geoff]

if you are going to do that then run it through a Python gravel siphon. it will do more good. the UV will help break down some of the compounds so that the skimmer will remove them better, but this is only really helpfull if the UV sterilizer is just before he skimmer. you still need to remove the larger chucks of detritus.

G~

[OodleyBoodely]

Originally Posted by mwanttie

I just don't like the look of BB. I would go completely with sand but I already bought 120 lbs of CC. After reading on this site for a few months I bought 80 lbs of Aragonite sand. I was going to mix 80 lbs of CC with 80 lbs of sand. I just feel like it's a waste if I don't use the CC. Can the inverts still sift through it if it is mixed?

The problem here is that very quickly you will end up with cc sitting on top of the fine sand and you'll also gain all the problems of both with few of the benefits. I've tried this and it does not work.

The best thing you can do with that cc, (IMO) is to mix it with concrete to make home-made liverock, or, use it as a base for a permanent bare-bottom. When I decided to go bb, I mixed cc with pvc cement and cemented it to the bottom of my tank for a permanent bottom. It now looks like liverock with coraline coverage. I like the look but, even in this application, I believe sand would work better. The cc creates a very rough textured surface that traps dirt. A smoother surface such as with sand would not trap as much.

[reef madman]

Originally Posted by Geoff

it all depends on the critter. most of the time they will find a way to move around.

if you must use sand then i would stay with only 1-2" at most.

G~

The 1-2" , is this if you are going to mix with cc or just if using sand alone? getting a little confused here..was thinking a dsb of 5" or more seemed like way to go? if only using 1-2" , should sand then be cleaned like cc would be to get the detritus out? also, does anyone know if quikrete play sand is alright to use in tank? my home depot and lowes only handle that brand...no southdown/yardright which i have read in some of the posts. thanks again for your help.
always learning something new each time i come here.