Crushed Coral vs. Sand

[Tropical]

Hi everyone. I am about ready to start my first tank. I'm a little confused on this topic. My friend has a 120g established reef tank. He is basically where I get all my info from. I have been coming to this site for awhile and am starting to get some conflicting info. My Friend has crushed coral in his tank and says its much easier to clean (he uses one of those vacuums that you connect to a faucet to clean the substrates). He told me that a sand substrate is much more difficult to clean and to stay away from it. From what I have seen on this website most people seem to use sand and from what I understand you don’t need to clean sand because it is alive and snails and other cleaner critters will maintain the sand for you. I'm not 100% on this so if someone could explain the differences and the pros and cons between the two it would really help me to choose a substrate.

Thanks for your help and sorry for the long post
Brad

[Tim224DT]

Well this is a touchy subject. If you post this in the bare bottom forum they would tell you to go with neither.

I have used both in my 72gallon tank. I like the sand over the crushed coral. The crushed coral needs to be cleaned A LOT! Sand is more for the person that kinda slacks here and there. Although i think it is easy to keep what sand i have left in my tank clean.

Look at Skeety(Mike S.) he has the same tank as me and he uses crushed coral and i use sand now. Both tanks look nice.


Tim

[coralcat]

WOW. This could be a lot of posts. crushed coral comes in diferent sizes. First and for most. What you use would also be dependent on what critters your going to host. Sand IE aragonite base,comes in differet size also, and is another term for crushed coral. Keeping is clean is another topic, 1-1/2 in. Do as your friend does. 3 to 5 in. leave it alone, as it will be a bio bed. Then your going to get replies saying no sand bed at all!!!!

What are you planning to setup. Reef,fish, both, hard ,soft coral? I use #2 araginite about 1 1/2 deep. I have a seperate DSB Bucket.

[tims]

I have been coming to this site for awhile and am starting to get some conflicting info.

yup you find a lot of info, some from one person and some from another whos does it differnt...
like tim and mikes tanks.

My Friend has crushed coral in his tank and says its much easier to clean

That is good for him, one problem i had with the Larger CC was the cleaning of it. the vaccuming was not always easy.
the Bag that you can get at the LFS , is very Large Grain. it is a wonderful trap for Ditrious, unless you are a major cleaner.

Brad if you look in the archive section here, take a look at the diss. of the week area. i belive we covered the various parts of this

[Geoff]

i am in the BB group.

the amount of cleaning you have to do with a CC substrate you might as well not even have a substrate.

CC-traps detritus and needs to be cleaned very regularly. it is easier to clean mechanically though.

aragonite- detritus will not fall into it as well. flow has a chance of keeping it in suspension to be taken out by the skimmer. it does absorb phosphates from the sitting detritus, so it will need to be replaced at some point when it gets full. it is very difficult to clean mechanically.

G~

[Tim224DT]

Can it be done with CC yes, can it be done with sand yes, can it be done with a bare bottom yes.

There are many ways to keeping a reef tank and if there was only one then it would be no fun i think. So which ever you pick just keep it clean like vac. the CC weekly or do the same with the sand weekly or if you go BB then clean the stuff off of the bottom as often as you can.



Tim

[coralcat]

Did that confuse you enough????????

[Hardhead Cat]

It is a confusing subject. I have had BB, CC and LS in my 135-gallon at different times. The BB was the easiest to keep clean but I didn't like the way it looked with my LR PVC stands. The CC was large grain and it drove me nuts, too much gunk got trapped in it and it was hard to try and maintain properly. Right now I have a deep sand bed of about 3" in the tank. It does require some maintenance (puffing with a turkey baster) but generally speaking I like it the best.

Just my $.02.

HHC

[ILLBKING]

I have a mix in mine, started with the CC and then add the sand. The sand will settle to the btm and the CC sits on top. Not at all what I had in mind.
100% sand or BB is now my next choice.

[Tropical]

Wow! That is a little confusing. So really its just a matter of taste? My friend suggested Florida Crushed Coral. I like the way the sand looks over the crushed coral, but, I'm afraid if I get something completely different from what my friend has I wont be able to get advice from him, as he doesn’t seem to know much about the sand.

Originally Posted by coralcat

What are you planning to setup. Reef,fish, both, hard ,soft coral? I use #2 araginite about 1 1/2 deep. I have a seperate DSB Bucket.

I plan to do a reef tank with some fish and Polyps, LPS hard, and maybe soft Corals. Not 100% on the corals yet. I do really like Zoos! What is a separate DSB Bucket?

Originally Posted by tims

Brad if you look in the archive section here, take a look at the diss. of the week area. i belive we covered the various parts of this

I'll check the archive section for the discussion like you suggested (I did a search for live sand in the “Search” and there really wasn’t much for crushed coral vs. sand)

Originally Posted by Hardhead Cat

The CC was large grain and it drove me nuts, too much gunk got trapped in it and it was hard to try and maintain properly. Right now I have a deep sand bed of about 3" in the tank. It does require some maintenance (puffing with a turkey baster)HHC

Is Florida Crushed Coral a large grain? Can you explain to me how you go about cleaning your sand? Do you use the same vacuum tool?

[Tropical]

bump

[Kevin1000]

CC is a lousy substrate for almost all SW tanks (predator tanks excepted) - the large diameter means it will harbor debris and will host a small fraction of potential beneficial bacteria of a smaller grained substrate.

There are plenty of good articles on-line on how to choose a substrate .. you will be hard pressed to find any that would recommend CC.

[Brent Cone]

Depends on your system, i run the Jaubert system, and i use Aragonite,
What is a plenum and how do I create one in my tank?

The plenum method was discovered by Dr. Jean Jaubert and is often referred to as the Jaubert System. "Plenum" refers to an un-oxygenated layer of water trapped beneath a deep layer of gravel or sand at the bottom of an aquarium. This layer of water becomes anaerobic. Bacteria cultivate in this oxygen-free environment and remove nitrates from the aquarium.

There are several variations of the plenum, depending on what literature you read. The basic structure of the plenum system is essentially a relatively deep (3" to 4") layer of gravel, suspended 2" to 3" above the bottom of an aquarium. It is usually recommended that very little or no water flow should be directed across the gravel surface. A basic plenum may be created by suspending egg crate material or under gravel filter plates above the aquarium bottom, using inert supports such as PVC pipe. If egg crate is used, it is covered with nylon screening over which the deep gravel bed is placed. The actual materials, including what grade of gravel or sand is used, vary depending on what literature you read, but usually coarse live sand, fine coral gravel, or a combination of both are used. One technique is to use 2" of live sand on the bottom, over which nylon screening is placed. The screen is then covered by 2" of fine coral gravel. This allows the aquarist to turn over the top inch of gravel occasionally to clean it, without disturbing the anaerobic layer below.

Anaerobic bacteria form in the bottom depths of the substrate and in the water below. As anaerobic bacteria cultivate, they remove nitrates. Anaerobic action produces a fair amount of heat. The heat warms the water layer below the gravel. The warmer water flows upwards, displacing cooler water above the gravel. This action moves water through the plenum at very slow rates. The slow movement of water through the gravel helps to prevent dangerous hydrogen-sulfide gases from forming in the plenum. The deep gravel bed also provides a home for burrowing motile invertebrates which feed on solid organic mulm and detritus. These burrowing animals, which are either purchased and/or cultivated on their own from live rock, serve to keep the plenum porous and aid in the slow movement of water through the system. "Burrowing" sea cucumbers that serve this function well may be purchased from a good aquarium store.

The aquarium is stocked with live rock, but not as much as is typically used. The live rock construct should be suspended above the gravel bed, allowing water to move freely beneath the reef. This may be accomplished in a number of ways. One way is to place a couple of "anchor" pieces on the gravel bed, and glue others to the back of the tank using aquarium epoxy putty (not silicone!). The rest of the live rock may then be bridged across these supports to build the reef, but not too high. The construct should be loose, not tightly packed together, to allow good flow through the rock. Care should be taken, however, not to direct flow from pump returns across the gravel. The emphasis in aquariums using a plenum should be on the reef, with a minimal number of fish to balance the ecology.

The Jaubert System, if constructed properly, can work well, provided the aquarium is only lightly-stocked with fish. While we are sure some hobbyists would disagree with us here, we feel that more research is necessary on this fascinating subject. The original plenum method used aeration as the only means of water movement in the tank. We highly recommend that a plenum be used in conjunction with a Berlin system. The protein skimmer will remove other dissolved and solid organics, not removed by the plenum. The use of a protein skimmer combined with the plenum method may be the key to keeping more fish while using this type of biological filtration.

If you're setting up a new aquarium, installing a plenum will be relatively easy. If you have an existing reef tank, installing a plenum will involve a fair to major amount of work. Definitely read up on the subject before you go to work.
Brent.

[tdwyatt]

just tagging along for the ride...

Personally, I use either sand of BB, crushed coral is too much a potential hazzard should you get lax on the husbandry of the system (or need a babysitter for more than a week). Much depends on what you want your system to do and what type of creatures you want in your system.

[Brent Cone]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

just tagging along for the ride...

Personally, I use either sand of BB, crushed coral is too much a potential hazzard should you get lax on the husbandry of the system (or need a babysitter for more than a week). Much depends on what you want your system to do and what type of creatures you want in your system.

(Ditto!!!)
There ya go! it just depends on what kind of system you want to run!
Brent.