Cooking base rock and phosphate levels

[fish.freak]

ok I have had my 20 gal system runing for 3 months and the only thing that grows on my base lace rock is green alge. I used tap water for initial setup, but have used only r/o for top of and w/c's.
The lace was in my previous fresh water system for two years using only tap water.
My phosphates tested at 2.0 ppm today, what is an acceptable level for softies and an anemone?

1)Is it worth riping my tank apart to cook the lace rock?(if so how)

2)Should I just ditch thge lace and opt for LR?

3)Or should I just let it be?

Don't just vote post your responce so I can see who says what
Thanks, Scott

Oh yea my clowns have bonded to a piece of the rock...

[Geoff]

i vote ditch because you did not have a "neither" option.

i do think LR is more porous than the lace rock so there is an advantage there also. the disadvantage is that new LR may not be that much better than the lace rock in phosphate levels. after reading about where LR comes from it will be difficult to get LR that does not already have elevated phosphate levels.

if you can raise the all of the lace rock so none of it is resting on the substrate you will have a much better chance of getting a hold of the problem. you can also remove any substrate, that will also help a lot. that way you can get in and around the aquascaping and siphon out any detritus that forms.

G~

[tdwyatt]

hmmm...


I must not know what lace rock is... Personally I don't think that I would recommend ditching any rock that came from the ocean, but if it is something that was terrestrial-sourced, or manufactured, then the garden in the back is a good spot for it.

[Geoff]

Tom- i am having a hard time finding a pic of it for you. there seems to ge to different kinds. most of the references seem to go to a volcanic origin. actually all of the references seem to point to a volcanic origin. the stuff i normally associate with Lace rock seems like it could also be called Tufa rock. this also seems to be volcanic based. the lace rock i am thinking of looks very close to sand stone, but more firm. it has a closer appearance to solid pice of LR without any tiny holes. i do not think it is calcium carbonate based though.

G~

[yardboy]

It's all in how you handle it. I've had success with "terrestrial-based" rock, but I treated it first. I confess to picking up rock, practically from Spanky's front door, and bringing it home. The evil "land-based" rock (I think he talks about it so bad to keep people from stealing his landscaping rocks!)

I soaked it in a bleach solution for a week to remove color, then heavily rinsed, then soaked it in a couple of changes of a weak acetic acid solution, then in RO/DI water for a week. It's never yet grown any algae.

[Viv]

Personally, I'd cook it, (purge it of the problem). I had to do this with my LR, it took time, mostly patience...cause I hate waiting. Anyway you lose nothing by cooking it, you learn about cooking LR, and if you really don't care for it in the end you can then spend money to replace it...( I cooked my LR in a brute container-which is a large garbage can, they say to use a brute container because it is thick and strong, something you want when it becomes filled with rock and water! Anyway, I added clean salt water to the container, about a third full, added rock to the bottom, placed a power head to move the water around in the container, added a skimmer(which some people said was not necessary-but I had an old seaclone hanging around so why not) a heater to bring the water temp up from about 60 to 82 , and then just added more salt water and rock to the top of the container until the rock was covered with saltwater. I covered the top of the garbage can with black garbage bags so no light could get into the can. AND COOKED, and cooked, and cooked, and cooked...I did'nt have time to take the rock out weekly to scrub off the die off so I settled for once every two weeks. At this time I used a bottle brush to scrub the rocks, swished them around in new clean salt water and placed them into a second brute container to start the process all over again for another two weeks. Expense was not big-two brute containers (two because I can later use them as garbage cans-and I did not want to have to clean out the container when I was done scrubbing the rock - I wanted the container ready to accept the brushed rock so I could get it cooking again and clean the used container when I had more time)...salt, and water...oh yeah and the bottle brush (ha,ha) Very pleased with the outcome...and I felt if it worked it would sure beat buying new rock! Good luck with whatever you do...if you do a search here on TRT I'm sure you'll find all kinds of info on cooking (purging) live rock. Hope this helped.

[Loverotties]

Not shure the term "Laced" butIf boiling can clean it I would cook it.

[fish.freak]

Originally Posted by Geoff

i vote ditch because you did not have a "neither" option.
G~

option 3 "leave it" sorry if that wasnt clear G.

so how would I seperate the base rock and and the substrate, slate?

Currently I am using 2" fine cc substrate, which I kind of like since I have shrimp gobies I was planing on adding a pistol shrimp. (but not committed)

The alge is mainly on the one rock the clown host in, it isnt hair alge or anything it is just encrusting within the pores.

Im not sure this pic will help but this is of one of the rocks in question, there are more pics that may help in my nano build off post.

[fish.freak]

oops never renamed the pic when I made the avitar.

[2003mikem]

I have seen several forms of lace rock. Home made cement rock volcanic rock or ditch quarry rock. If you bought it from a lfs chances are it is good lace rock. As far as Tufa, Tufa is calcium carbonate base rock. Here is a 35 Element Semi-Quantitative Emission Spectrograph of lace rock

35 Element Semi-Quantitative Emission Spectrograph Lower Element (PPM) ( % ) Detection Limit Gold N 10 Silver 3.0 0.5 Copper 10.0 5 Lead 50.0 200 Zinc N 200 Molybdenum N 5 Iron 1.5 0.05 Tungsten N 50 Nickel 5.0 5 Cobalt N 5 Chromium N 10 Cadmium N 20 Arsenic N 200 Antimony N 100 Manganese 100.0 10 Vanadium N 10 Bismuth N 10 Tin N 10 Zirconium 100.0 10 Boron N 10 Barium 70.0 20 Beryllium 5.0 1 Lanthanum N 20 Niobium 20.0 20 Scandium N 5 Strontium N 100 Yttrium N 10 Calcium 0.7 0.05 Magnesium 0.3 0.02 Titanium 0.05 0.002 Sodium 3.0 0.15 Aluminum 7.0 0.5 Potassium 0.5 0.5 Silicon G 30.0 2.0 Phosphorus N 0.1 N = Not detected L = Detected, but below limit of determination G = Greater than value shown PPM = Parts per million

[Geoff]

if you are using a CC bottom than you should be siphoning it to remove detritus each time you do a water change.

the good news is algae grows as close to the nutrient source as possible. so it sounds like this is the only rock that is prossibly full of phosphates.

if you can put your rock up on PVC pillons like Tom has his. this will help you in reaching all of the CC substrate for vacuuming purposes. if you are not getting the detritus out of the system then you will have more algae problems.

G~

[fish.freak]

I will do a w/c this weekend and wait a week to test again.

Come to think of it the halamedia grew like wildfire on the base rock.

[fish.freak]

I will do a w/c this weekend and wait a week to test again.

Come to think of it the halamedia grew like wildfire on the base rock.

Thanks for your input G, helpfull as allways.

Now time for class...

What do the rest of you think?

[Kevin1000]

I doubt that cooking lace rocks is going to get you much .. seems to me the primary purpose of "cooking" is to remove build up detrius within the rock which may not apply here. Perhaps the volcanic rock has minerals that are assisting the algae growth .. not sure.

I am familiar with the process of removing phosphates from calcium carbonate base rocks using an acidic bath as referred to in yardboys posts .. not sure whether that works with volcanic rock.

[yardboy]

Heck man, if that's all the algae you have to worry about, I've got a long-spined sea urchin that'll turn that stuff into tiny little pellets suitable for vacuuming in no time! It's what he lives for!