building a tank?

[Gilraen Took]

I know I can fit a 10 gallon underneath it. Or at least I'm pretty sure I can. And I really don't know anything about making the sump. All I know is that I need to have the return/supply and that I can use it to keep my chaeto under control. But that's really about it. I still need to figure out how to do the plumbing, which is my big concern really. If I have pictures/descriptions of how to plumb it I can get it from that, but I can seem to either find pictures with no descriptions in threads, or I can find articles that don't show how to do it.

Sorta more of a "how do I get it down to the sump then back into the tank without flooding" question, I guess. I know I can drill the main tank(well, depending on how I end up making it. . .) and put a bulkhead in there to get the water to the sump(or since it's more for cheato, a fuge more than a sump?), but then how do I get the water back to the display with the right amount of flow? I'm assuming a powerhead, but how do I figure out what powerhead to get?

And then IN the sump, I may build a skimmer at some point, but since I'm going with low fish load(so I'm still re-thinking that part :P, probably a bi-colour blenny and a yellow tail blue damsel, though maybe another species of smaller swimming fish.) I don't think it'll be critical at first, especially with the chaeto. And the skimmer would hang off of the sump. Um. . . What do I need to do in the tank? All of the pictures I've seen of them seem to have glass pieces sectioning them off, but how do I figure those out?

Also, would the 2x4 need to be to the top of the stand(I'm assuming so) and would it still work as well that way(1" front-3" on the sides) with the tank being square bottomed?

[fish.freak]

Originally Posted by OneDummHikk

Nice. Any idea what kind of epoxy he used?

Black marine grade epoxy paint.

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

I know I can fit a 10 gallon underneath it. Or at least I'm pretty sure I can. And I really don't know anything about making the sump. All I know is that I need to have the return/supply and that I can use it to keep my chaeto under control. But that's really about it. I still need to figure out how to do the plumbing, which is my big concern really. If I have pictures/descriptions of how to plumb it I can get it from that, but I can seem to either find pictures with no descriptions in threads, or I can find articles that don't show how to do it.

I will sit tonight (if nobody posts links to others) and make drawings from the front and side. And then post the pictures and an explanation of how it all goes together.

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

Sorta more of a "how do I get it down to the sump then back into the tank without flooding" question, I guess. I know I can drill the main tank(well, depending on how I end up making it. . .) and put a bulkhead in there to get the water to the sump(or since it's more for cheato, a fuge more than a sump?), but then how do I get the water back to the display with the right amount of flow? I'm assuming a powerhead, but how do I figure out what powerhead to get?

I think the pictures will explain it better. You could use a powerhead but from what I have been reading about them with head loss, they won't work for this. I was looking to see what kind of return pump I wanted to put on my 12G nano tank and powerheads won't work (not enough power to overcome the height factor).

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

And then IN the sump, I may build a skimmer at some point, but since I'm going with low fish load(so I'm still re-thinking that part :P, probably a bi-colour blenny and a yellow tail blue damsel, though maybe another species of smaller swimming fish.) I don't think it'll be critical at first, especially with the chaeto. And the skimmer would hang off of the sump. Um. . . What do I need to do in the tank? All of the pictures I've seen of them seem to have glass pieces sectioning them off, but how do I figure those out?

Also, would the 2x4 need to be to the top of the stand(I'm assuming so) and would it still work as well that way(1" front-3" on the sides) with the tank being square bottomed?

Yes, the 2x4 would need to go all the way to the top of the stand. That way the top of the stand is "sitting" on the 2x4's and supporting it instead of the sides supporting all the weight. And yes, it will work with the stand being square. You turn them one way or the other to allow you a bigger "door" on the front of the stand to get access to the sump.

[OneDummHikk]

OK, These pictures suck. But I hope they give you the basic idea. Top down view of the display tank:



The black lines you see are the plywood box.
The pink line across the bottom is the front of the tank. It would be acrylic or glass for viewing.
The red line across the top is a overflow wall. It is about an inch shorter than the sides and water will flow over it into the overflow area. The green and blue (that are supposed to be circles). One is the drain, the other is the return pipe. Unless you wanted/needed it somewhere else, I would drill that hole directly over where the return pump is in the sump area. Then you don't have as many fittings to do and more fittings mean less flow from the pump The return pipe would come up over the top of the overflow wall and dump into the tank.

Front view of the sump:



In that picture, the green is the drain pipe coming from the tank.
The red vertical line is a divider to keep the water level up where you want it.
The pink box is the return pump and the brown is the return plumbing going straight back up through the tank and back to the tank. The blue line you see is the water level.

The dividers in both tanks (sump and display) will need notches cut in it. I have a link somewhere if I can find it that shows them and explains what they are for. They are basically water level control features.

What new questions did I introduce?

[Gilraen Took]

I think the pics helped a lot ^_^ So basically in the main tank the smaller area in the back controls how much water can leave the tank, right? So if there was a power outage the entire tank would not end up in the sump. I don't entirely understand how the water stays at the right levels in the sump(am assuming it has to do with gravity somehow, right?) but I think I get it. Kinda like before, how do I figure out what sort of a pump to get to return water to the tank?

So I can see that the water from the tank goes into the overflow area and gets drained out, but how does it then get back into the tank? Do I need to have the return going directly into the display? And does the drain need to be towards the top or the bottom of the tank?

And yea, the notches are still completely past me, but as said, I'm a visual learner, and if I can see it I usually understand it pretty well Thanks!

Also, since I'm apparently not working tomorrow night(lol, unless someone doesn't show up again) I'm going to see if I can get in touch with a friend who works with acrylic to see if he could give me an estimate for how much a tank made of just that would be. If it's cheaper by a ways than the sealant for the plywood would be I may go for that.

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

I think the pics helped a lot ^_^ So basically in the main tank the smaller area in the back controls how much water can leave the tank, right? So if there was a power outage the entire tank would not end up in the sump. I don't entirely understand how the water stays at the right levels in the sump(am assuming it has to do with gravity somehow, right?) but I think I get it. Kinda like before, how do I figure out what sort of a pump to get to return water to the tank?

So I can see that the water from the tank goes into the overflow area and gets drained out, but how does it then get back into the tank? Do I need to have the return going directly into the display? And does the drain need to be towards the top or the bottom of the tank?

Here is another one of those Hikk Drawings that I suck so badly at:




That is a view from the front of the tank. The blue line is the water level. In the top half of the picture, it is the height of your back overflow wall. The brown and green where you see the white in the middle of them, is behind that overflow wall. Dream with me here The brown I drew sideways though. Instead of it coming up and turning left and then down, it will come up, turn to the front of the tank, over the wall and back into the display area.

Area 1 is the area in front of the overflow wall.
Area 2 is the area behing the overflow wall.

If both tanks are empty, you start filling area 1. The water gets to the top of the overflow and runs into area 2. When the water reaches the top of the drain pipe, it runs down into area 3. When the water fills area 3, it goes into area 4 (more on area 4 in a moment). Then it will flow into area 5. The last place that would get water is area 5. When you get area 5 to the level you want, you stop putting water in.

You turn the pump on. It pumps water back into area 1. That raises it above the wall and it all flows back to area 5 by gravity, then the pump puts it back into area 1 and repeats the process. If you lose power or unplug the pump, it all stops and will level itself out.

The only area where the water level will fluctuate is area 5 and you need to keep an eye on it for evaporation and keep it topped off.

What Area 4 is is a bubble trap. The air bubbles in area 3 can't go over the wall, under the wall and end up back in the display. It is just one of those "trust me" things.

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

And yea, the notches are still completely past me, but as said, I'm a visual learner, and if I can see it I usually understand it pretty well Thanks!

They have to do with water flowing. If the tank isn't 100% level, then water would flow over one side before the other. In the above picture, if the tank is 1/4" out of level, then the water would flow over the low side and not the high side. With the notches, it flows everywhere. There is an explanation for it but I don't dare try to explain it. I just know it works that way and without the notches in dividers, you get that problem. Easier to believe me and put them there

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

Also, since I'm apparently not working tomorrow night(lol, unless someone doesn't show up again) I'm going to see if I can get in touch with a friend who works with acrylic to see if he could give me an estimate for how much a tank made of just that would be. If it's cheaper by a ways than the sealant for the plywood would be I may go for that.

I wouldn't use paint on it. I would line the tank with 1/8" plexiglass from HD, silicone the joints and be done. Lot cheaper than the paint and/or a custom acrylic tank.

OK, now you get to ask me more questions and repeat the ones that didn't get answered.

[OneDummHikk]

If you aren't going to be doing the sump before next weekend, I am going to be doing a 10G sump setup for my own tank that is fairly close to what you will need. Mine has a bit more to it but you can see actual pictures of what is happening with it. And, you can laugh at my mistakes with me until I get it like I want it

[Gilraen Took]

I think I may wait and see that too As I kinda said(I think?) there's a .000897235404823% chance I'm moving towards the end of the year. My roommate is getting an inheritance and has said to Nathan that he's likely to move cross country when he does, which leaves Nathan without an assistant manager and us both with extra rent(which isn't too easy to make) so he was considering going someplace else. I want to figure out if we ARE moving before I set up a new tank and have to tear it down and move a few weeks later. And until we can move, my sump is my current tank. Definitely want to try to get the materials together, just don't want to have to take more than 5 lbs of LR that have some coral on them. Figure it'll be easier and less of a cycle that way. And then just add small pieces of rock a bit at a time until it gets built up nicely to minimize spikes after that.

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by Gilraen Took

I think I may wait and see that too As I kinda said(I think?) there's a .000897235404823% chance I'm moving towards the end of the year. My roommate is getting an inheritance and has said to Nathan that he's likely to move cross country when he does, which leaves Nathan without an assistant manager and us both with extra rent(which isn't too easy to make) so he was considering going someplace else. I want to figure out if we ARE moving before I set up a new tank and have to tear it down and move a few weeks later. And until we can move, my sump is my current tank. Definitely want to try to get the materials together, just don't want to have to take more than 5 lbs of LR that have some coral on them. Figure it'll be easier and less of a cycle that way. And then just add small pieces of rock a bit at a time until it gets built up nicely to minimize spikes after that.

Moving is what is holding up my 90 gallon tank. I am up for the night so I am going to go ahead and mock up my sump since I am up. I will post pictures of the mock up for you. I am going to do it with cardboard now because nobody is open at 4am for me to get plastic from

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by OneDummHikk

Moving is what is holding up my 90 gallon tank. I am up for the night so I am going to go ahead and mock up my sump since I am up. I will post pictures of the mock up for you. I am going to do it with cardboard now because nobody is open at 4am for me to get plastic from

Three things I learned so far:

1) Cardboard doesn't work real well unless you have heavy cardboard (I don't).
2) Styrofoam fish boxes cut up don't work well either.
3) My skimmer is not going to work in a 10 gal tank used as a sump.