Brand-new Reefer!!

[Voyeur]

Hello!!
I need a little help here if you don't mind.....well ok...a lot...
I used to be heavy in fresh-water tanks about fifteen years ago,but due to divorce/moving I gave away all my fish and put the tanks in the shed.
Spring cleaning snuck up on me and I found my tanks again!!

To make a long story somewhat shorter,I decided to put up a few tanks,but this time I want to try a reef tank also.

I've been on the net for the last two weeks (in-between cleaning equipment,its amazing how much crap accumulates on your aquarium stuff in fifteen years...)and I have a lot of questions.

To begin with I will say that I have absolutely no time-table for the reef tank to be stocked/filled or whatever you call it.I am setting up a 55 gallon freshwater to play with as the reef tank gets ready,so if it takes a year or two that not a big deal.

My reef tank is 75 gallon,I also have some smaller tanks I can use for sumps or refugiums or whatever,but in two weeks of intensive looking I can't find a beginners guide to reefer madness....
It has me already I know,DSB,SSB,BB,SLP,DLP LR.....
sorry,anyways I am open to anything as far as the substrate goes,I want a fairly easy maintenance job,and if possible I will build/make whatever parts I can (ie protein skimmer/eductor),to help defray my costs.

As it stands at the moment my plan is to decide what the bottom will be,then get some live rock and/or live sand and pretty much stay with that for four to six months,maybe longer,adding liverock until I get to 80 to 100 pounds.

At this point I'll start looking at all the other reef denizens to put in,but it all goes back to the start.

What is better on the bottom and why......
What filtration is best.....
What lighting is best...(I know it depends on the critturs,so I can pretty much go with my flourescents while I have just LR)

If you have any good links Im more than willing to go learn from them,I just want to do this right from the beginning.

Sorry about the long post,and it feels really good to finally decide on a forum to join after lurking on so many the last couple weeks!

Thanks in advance!

[OodleyBoodely]

Welcome to TRT, Voyeur! Glad you decided to join us here at TRT! It's late and I'm too braindead to give you a reply to your questions tonight - I'll let others help you tonight and I'll jump back into the frey tomorrow. Just wanted to say hi and welcome!

[wanareef]

Welcome to the addiction.

Just to start, have those tanks been exposed to cooper to treat the FW fishes? This is only for glass tanks. It's soaked up in the silicone and is deadly to coral.

That's good you are willing to take the time and wait, The best advice I can give you besides posts ?? here and on other boards it to READ, READ, READ and READ. Here is a link for some books. Some books that I have and reconmend; The Book of Coral Propagation, by Anthony Calfo - great speaker; Reef Invertebrates an Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibility, the Reef Aquarium, by Delbeck; the Consciencious marine aquarist; and the Modern Reef Aquarium vols 1-3

Now a DSB, or a SSB or BB (barebottm). I started off with a DSB at least 6" and seeded it from several places. With poor circulation on/near the bottom I developed a phosphate problem. I removed the sand bed (took 16hrs) after 2yrs and phosphates are going down. If you go with a DSB don't over feed, raise the LR off of the sand bed to promote circulation, have a spray bar near the bottom on the back to help keep the just from settling. More and more guys/gals are going BB, so it's your call. With the sand on the bottom it looks more natural, eaiser to position clams on.

For filtration, the LR will do it's job, but you can help it with good circulation, skimmer and a fuge full of macro-algae, some like me have it on a RPP (reverse photoperiod) on 12 off 12 and others 24/7.

There is some debate as to cure LR in the tank with sand or just in a tub. Either way you do it you will need to run a skimmer as the LR will have some die off, if it's uncured and still have a little with cured. It would be best to get all of the LR at once and have it cycle that one time, but since you are willing to wait, you can slowly add it. You won't need lights for this.

Please don't plop in a fish to start the cycle - instead you can use a small amount of ammonium chloride to start it, seed the sand from a cup of sand from several local (nearby not crazy)reefers or even from the LFS.

This is my favorite forum as it doesn't have all that *&^%$ that big one does, more friendly.

hth and good luck

[Voyeur]

Thank you!

No copper has ever been in this tank.

At this time I have ruled out DSB,so I need to decide between SSB and BB,but I really hate to have the bottom of the tank staring up......

I already have about 50 pounds of crushed coral,and from what I read its better to have some larger particles in the sand for the animals to be able to move around.

I guess the first thing I need to do is to get or build a skimmer,as the one I used to have mysteriously dissappeared....

I also have a magnum 350 canister filter and a few whisper 2 hang on filters.Are these going to do me any good for now or should I just use them for my freshwaster tanks.
I also have 2 of the biggest whisper powerheads that have ever been made.....Reversable flow and all that.....

These are being set up in the basement,and I will be able to hide all my equipment under the stairs if needed.Anyone have any good plans for an inexpensive way to build a skimmer?

I am also looking at RO/DI units,but I really dont know too much about them.The one Im looking at is here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...396782433&rd=1
Is that good enough to do my tank water?

Thanks again for all your help.

John

[Phishnoob]

Welcome to TRT!!!!

I would get started on the live rock if you can. It is the longest part of the process and you can make all the rest and shop around whilst it cycles. A ten dollar rubbermaid tub and a powerhead and you are in business.

All of the sand and rock can all cycle together. If you add much later then the clock starts again.

Phishnoob

[Voyeur]

That sounds like a good plan Phish,except Im not sure about needing sand,plus I would really hate to get the LR cured and ready and not have what I need for the tank to run.

I would really like to have at least my basic equipment bought or built before I actually start buying my LR.

As I said,Im not in a huge hurry,no hurry at all actually,a lot of the fun for me is actually deciding what Im going to need and building things.My re-awakened fish frenzy is currently being assuaged by my 55 gallon FW tank,and I would really like to do this tank and not ever lose anything due to ME.......

I AM however VERY excited about the reef tank,and cant wait until I have stuff in it,but I am a very patient man.....the results will be worth the wait Im sure.

Im on a very limited budget at the moment (why do new houses need so much work....),and basically unless I can build or buy the skimmer very cheaply I wont have the cash for enough LR to make it worthwhile anyways.

I am checking into some books,but at the moment I would rather read on-line stuff and save that 50 or 80 dollars for parts or LR.....

Yeah yeah,I know,reefing on a budget isnt compatable.....

Oh well,a mans gotta do.........

Voyeur

[FishDaddy]

Welcome to The Reef Tank, Voyeur, and thanks for the PM!

Look forward to seeing your progress with the 75.

Regards,

Dick

[wanareef]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...eckett+skimmer

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...eckett+skimmer



Here are several links and maybe they will help you out. If you are handy with your hands and have some tools and have woodworking experience, then it'll be easy to make and also have some acrylic experience as well.

If you go BB, in time the glass will be covered in coraline algae or you can go the way of starboard (it's just like the stuff they use for cutting boards except maybe 1/4" thick)

On those canisters, I just use them for running carbon "ONLY" and not for filtration 24/7. IMO it's best to use them on the FW tanks.

Now for flow.
All depending on the type of corals you will be keeping depends on the flow. I would reconmend a "spray bar" along the back, bottom. This will keep the "detritus" from under and behind the rocks. If you go the way of "SPS's" and I would venture to guess that one day you will, then a CL is in order.
(more abbrevations) A closed loop is just that a water circuit that is uninterruppted, not exposed. One example of a CL is using something called SCWD and looks like this http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/wm_scwd.jpg. This is relative inexpensive and you would probalby need 2 on your 75gal. You will have to drill the back of the tank or have it hang on and come over the top. (too messy IMO). Another method is here http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...s/DSCN1344.jpg this is the most expensive way to go and maybe too much for your tank, maybe. The unit alone is about $280, and the wave strip timer is another $30-50. BTW, this is mojosreef's tank aka/Mike and its a 600 gal tank, but these are use on smaller tanks as well.
If you don't go the way of the CL, but contemplating maybe later, I would go ahead and drill the tank, install the BH's and plug them up for later use. This way your tank is already drilled and you don't have to do it when it's full of water. Another option is sea swirls, probably the 3/4" will be fine for you needs, two one on each corner. These are about $170 or so (could be high) and you will need a motor for all of these type of wave devices. Just an idea.

But for now those PH's will workout.

[sanblas]

piggybacking here, and hi charles, great info

I am going to be setting up a 50, and have many similar questions.

does a shallow sandbed need vacuuming a lot and whats the best substrate, would crushed coral do?

how do you prop up your rocks?

are spraybars on closed loops or is there another way to set them up?

is a CL necessary for a mixed tanks with a moderate amount of sps? is the CL just for more flow and random flow witha a scwd?

and if Im running a SSB ( i dont like the look of bare) is it ok to have a DSB in a fuge?

thanks,
sean

[btang]

Read, Read, Read is great advice. A good book for your firast setup is also 'The New Marine Aquarium' by Michael Paletta. Good reading.

Good luck with your project.

[wanareef]

Sean

How are ya?

Yes it does, checkout Steve Weast tank the 850gal, he vaccums almost everyday to keep it nice and clean.

The crushed would work, but it's just taste. As mentioned, if you go BB, the glass/acrylic will get covered in coraline algae soon enough anyway. But a DSB in the fuge is good to have your sand critters in. Don't forget to vaccum the very top of the sand to keep the detritus out of there.

You can cut 1" or so pvc to about 1" long, and lay it out on top of a scrap of acrylic, and glue it down. Just think of a bed of nails, the cut PVC is the nails and you just place your LR on top of it. Another way is to just lay 1" to 1.5" PVC pipe, length wise with a "t" on one end to keep it from rolling and just stack as usual. Some guys have build elaborate frames out of pvc and you can do this, just like a facade and attach it to the frame work with "ties", don't worry, anything plastic will get covered in coraline any way. Another way it to dry stack the rocks outside the tank but staying within the measurements and then using a carbide or concrete drill drill a hole for a piece of solid acrylic rod to pass throught. Then reassemble inside the tank. Your taxing my brain here

A spray could be on it own circuit or added to the CL and controlled by a BV (ball valve). Since there is no "open" in the circuit there is no chance of flooding.

A closed loop is not necessary but the look of PH's in a tank detracts from it, IMO and plus using one Amp or Sequence pump uses less electricity that 6 or 8 PH's.


hth

[sanblas]

charles,
thanks for the great info! didnt mean to overheat the brain

might have to look into the spraybar and CL options, the tank is dry and empty right now, so I could drill it(or more likely have someone help me drill it) and plan on that type of setup...not sure, would be nice to be ahead of the curve before setting the tank up. how big/expensive a pump would you need to run a SCWD & closed loop?

I have a 50 gallon with built in overflow that drains down into the stand into a 20 gallon acrylic sump, I was planning on adding a fuge using this design, although my return pump will be internal to the sump. was also thinking of adding a bubble trap to the fuge. if anyone has any suggestions on this design please let me know

http://www.inlandreef.com/Images/DIY...gium_plumb.gif

[Voyeur]

Wanareef,this is exactly some of the information I am looking for.The only problem is I'm not exactly sure how the skimmers work,so this is hampering my comprehension on how they are built just a bit....

But I'll keep reading as I gather materials,and once I understand exactly how they work Im sure all the diagrams will make perfect sense.

I found 2 new aquarium stores today,one is salt-water only,so that killed about 4 hours of my day.

One thing though,as far as drilling the tank goes....I've never tried this or seen it done,is there a special bit for this?Is it really necessary to drill holes in my tank?If I break it It will probably be a year or so before I can get another,but if thats the best way for the tank to be set up I'll grit my teeth and take the plunge.....

Voyeur

[wanareef]

Sean

I have a Iwaki 40 rlt on it and the flow is reduced somewhat, probably a mag 12 would be better.

I have never seen a bubble trap in the fuge, before. If you "T" off of the drain to the fuge and raise the fuge a little higher than the sump, it'll gravity feed the return area and you can have the baffles there. You don't want a huge amount of flow in the fuge.


Voyer

Here's a link to skimmer's 101

Drilling the tank is easy and simple. The bottom is a no-no as most use tempered glass. But the back and sides are fair game. Knowing what I know now, I would have drilled the tank for the overflow. This getws the boxes out of the tank and you will have more room for corals. You can go one of three ways or not.

1. Take the tank to a glass shop and have them drill it - cost ya $5-$20 a hole and they might do it or not.

2. Go out and buy an expensive bit for drilling glass and when you are done with it just have it sit around or try and resell it on the boards. These bits are about $30-80. Take about 5mins to drill a hole

3. Go to harbor frieght and get these diamond burrs, 20pc for about $6 and take about 10mins or so per hole. You'll use up several of these bits, but you would have DIY ans save some $$. Just draw your outline on the area to drill, get a good seat, wear shorts and safety glasses, get a soda and a large container of water. You'll need a dremel or a flex shaft to make your holes. Just start with a pointed bit and go around following the outline and add water. When you have this groove or channel cut change bits to a "barrel" bit and continue.

When you have your holes cut by any method or not, if you install any BH's, I would suggest that you put in a little silicone in the hole and then tighten up but not over tighten the BH.

[sanblas]

oops I meant a bubble trap for the sump