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Old 10-14-2001, 10:04 PM   #1
SteveNichols
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Question

Blue Linkia


Anyone have one shipped? If so, where did you order it and did it live? TIA
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Old 10-15-2001, 10:58 AM   #2
julieanne399
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i purchased one with saltwaterfish.com. I bought one of their packages, they let you substitute things if you contact them ahead of time and they pay the shipping. So far it is living and moving all around the tank. You need to aclimatize them very carefully and slowly. Julie
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Old 10-15-2001, 06:00 PM   #3
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Bought one last year through FFE It arrived stiff (PH shock?)...acclimated over several hours but methinks it was already too far gone. 3 of the 4 specimens in that shipment (August 2000) were dead or dying.

I guess I still have a credit there (they issued one without question when I contacted them for the DOAs) but IMO it's not worth the cost of shipping to kill anything else

I'll buy from LFS from now on....easier to acclimate when they've only been in the bag an hour or so, versus 24 hours or more.

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Old 10-15-2001, 10:20 PM   #4
SteveNichols
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I think I have to agree with you Jenn. Thanks for the replies and views. I posted on the other boards too, and at most , half had one that lived. Acclimation and shipping are big problems with these guys apparently. I guessed that, thus the question. Thanks again.
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Old 10-15-2001, 10:35 PM   #5
Drew
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My experience with shipping these beautiful animals is different than the norm I guess. I have order two from FFE, and both arrived well and lived and prospered. Just make sure you acclimate them well. I just want to throw in a good word for FFE, they are a great place to order from.

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Old 10-15-2001, 11:08 PM   #6
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I agree with Drew... I have had great luck with FFE. Julie
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Old 10-16-2001, 08:16 PM   #7
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I see a lot of questions lately about these wonderful little creatures that ask specifically about acclimatization and poor survival of specimens. The acclimatization of sea stars is so important that the fact that Linckia stars have an 80 to 90% mortality shipping rate is prolly due to the improper acclimatization of the sea stars, not necessarily the shipping. If your sea stars seem to explode, it is prolly due to the acclimatization problems seen with these echinoderms.

One of the features that distinguish echinoderms from all other animals is the presence of the ambulacral system, a relatively high-pressure hydraulic system that is used to power Asteroidea body movements. This hydrovascular system is a set of vascular vessels that use body fluids/water to extend and contract their tube feet. Tube feet are extensions of the final branches of the hydrovascular system. Although is was long thought that the tube feet used the hydrovascular system to produce suction that allowed the tube feet to “grab” the substrate, etc., it is now known that the base of the tube feet use a 2 substance system of adhesive/adhesive-resolver to literally “glue” the tube feet to the objects they come in contact with and unglue them to release them.

The presence of the hydrovascular system is probably one of the major limitations for keeping asteroides in the home aquarium. The ambulacral system is made up of many membranes and delicate tissues that simply do not respond well to repeated challenges by fluctuations in the salinity of the environment. If the changes are abrupt enough, the tissues/membranes will respond by rupturing due to the osmotic gradient across these membranes. Most echinoderms simply cannot tolerate fluctuations in the salinity of the water column. Echinoderms are some of the oldest living extant spp. of marine creatures, and have over millions of years adapted to living in fully marine (as opposed to estuary or brackish or freshwater) conditions, with the salinity at 35 to 36 PPT ( 1.026 S.G.at 84° F).
Water does not enter the water vascular system passively; rather, it is actively pumped into the hydrovascular system through an as yet incompletely understood metabolic pathway. When fluctuations in salinity rupture the membranes of the hydrovascular system, death or at least the “explosion” of the sea star occurs. This demise often occurs over several days to weeks, with pieces of flesh falling off the main body mass after the damage to the ambulacral system has occurred. See http://www.geocities.com/banggai/blinckia.html for some pictures of the effects on Linckia levegata. Some times the remaining rays will re-grow the central disk, so it is possible to maintain the pieces to recover and re-grow full bodies if there are few scavengers…

In addition to the possible assault on the hydrovascular system, Linckias have another target of salinity weaknesses. The aboral surface of stars is often covered with small, delicate, filmy projections of the main body cavity of the creature through holes in the body wall. These are the dermal gills, considered to be the primary site of gas exchange. These projections are filled with fluid from the body cavity, which is circulated through the structures by cilia. These dermal gills are also subject to osmotic rupture and damage during periods of salinity fluctuation.
Consequently, although sea stars can survive a wide number of environmental challenges, from poor water quality to temperature fluctuations, they simply cannot tolerate fluctuations of salinity. Handling these creatures may damage these dermal gills as well.

I wish that I could tell you that I have had fantastic success using the following acclimatization procedure, but often prior handling of the sea stars will determine how well they will survive in your tank. Remember that the damage to the hydrovascular system is often slow to appear in the creature. Make sure that when you select your sea star that you look for firm creatures with no strictures or pits on the dermal surfaces and well-extended tube feet on the aboral surface of the rays.

The best method of acclimatizing these wonderful creatures is to arrange a drip (get an IV tube set from the hospital if possible) and place the creature in a bucket or container large enough to hold the sea star and it’s water that it was shipped in. Place this container in another container (PLEASE, NOT the SUMP!!! This allows the introduction of the shipping water and anything else in that water into your system… …including copper…) large enough to hold 4 volumes of the first container (or use a sink). Start the drip at about 1 to 2 drops per second, and remove approximately 1/3 the volume of the container every hour. This will take about 4 to 6 hours to equalize the volume, depending on how much water you start with. I would suggest this method whenever introducing ANY echinoderm, and prolly snails as well, although most marine snails will do with a 2 hour acclimatization. If you can’t acquire an IV set from the hospital, take some air line tubing and put a clamp on the tube to adjust the flow rate into the acclimatization chamber. Use a watch to see how many drops fall in to the container in 30 seconds (use this as 25 to50 drops per 30 seconds)

I hope this helps, I have lost a few Linckia over the years by not knowing this information. I know that most of the info here is specific to Linckia spp., but it applies to ALL echinoderms as well, urchins, sea cukes, sand dollars, and sea stars, although the Linckia spp. seem to be the most susceptible.

Sorry for the long post, I will prolly post this on reef central as well. Hope this helps.
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Old 10-17-2001, 08:34 PM   #8
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After this post has been up a couple of days, it seems like FFE does a very good job with these guys. I am trying it and will let y'all know how it turns out. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 10-17-2001, 09:39 PM   #9
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Thanks for the informative on starfish. I too have been wanting to get a red fromia and FFX does have them. With your acclimation procedure, I feel better at being successful.


Thanks,

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Old 10-17-2001, 11:11 PM   #10
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Definatly go for slow acclimation on most stuff
Exception would be mail order fish and stuff
Reason is the longer its in the bag the pH drops from carbonic acid as a result of respiration etc
The advantage here is as the pH drops it renders ammonia less toxic. Slow drip acclimation on shipped livestock can actually bring pH back up causeing ammonia levels to be toxic in the shipping bag
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Old 10-18-2001, 08:31 PM   #11
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Slow drip acclimation on shipped livestock can actually bring pH back up causeing ammonia levels to be toxic in the shipping bag
This is actually one of the reasons for removing the volumes of water every hour, it decreases the amount of ammonia available in the water column as well as the dilutional effect from the slow drip. Adding the new water slowly brings up the pH as well, such that (hopefully) the ammonia level will be diluted enough to counteract the increases in toxicity. Rapid acclimatization might be ok for the fishes, but the echinoderms MUST HAVE SLOW ACCLIMATIZATION IF THEY ARE TO SURVIVE. For them, ammonia toxicity is secondary to the salinity changes.
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air line tubing , drip acclimation , flow rate , sea cukes , sea star , sea stars



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