Bleaching - Only One Acro

[skeety]

Is it possible some corals just lack a will to live?

ONE of my acro's is bleaching from the bottom, and in random spots all around. And I'm stumped.

I have quite a variety of corals in my tank, but I have them spaced appropriately (no torches/zoo's near my SPS's, etc). I ahve Softies, LPS, SPS, etc. But I run Carbon 24/7 to compensate for this.

I do a 15 gln water change every other week (97 gln total water volume).

All my other corals are doing great. My monti...growin' like crazy. My pocillopora is getting nice and bright. Even my other acro, has really been coloring up in the last two weeks.

I never really see the polyps out very far on the acro in question, so I'm not sure how he's getting his meals. (prob at night).

My water parms are all pretty good. Temp-81, pH-8.2, dKh 9-10, Ca-520 (little high), (Amm, 'trites, and 'trates all under 5 ppm).

I have this acro placed at the same height in the tank as the other acro.

My only guess, (and I think it's a crappy guess) is that it's not getting the same amount of light. Let me explain. My PC fixture has 4 dual bulbs. But they are staggered. 1st bulb starts on the left side, 2nd on the right, 3rd on the left, 4th on the right.

This acro is more towards the side of the tank, so maybe since one bulb is about 4" over more, he's not getting the same distribution of light?

I don't know. Any help would be appreciated. If I can't figure it out by this weekend, I'll assume it's white band or RTN and I'll just frag off the good parts, and hope they do well.

anyways...here's some pics.
(to see it's placement, or for my tank's specs click on the link in my sig).

[skeety]

As a note, I have a 4x96 watt PC fixture. The bulbs are a little (few days) over 5 months old, and starting this past weekend, I've been switching them out one every other night) thinking this might be the problem.

But wouldn't my other corals be showing signs too? My green acro's still getting brighter and brighter every day.

[Twitterbait]

move it first and see if you get polyp extension. first move it to brighter light then move it further away. i do agree that you should probably frag right away.

[aussiereefer82]

Could it be RTN. How rapidley is it bleaching?? If it is RTN act quickley as you could possibly lose all your SPS. Do a search for RTN, and start fragging if it is!

It does look like the underside is just not getting enough light though, but don't rule out RTN.

[tims]

Mikey
the white band( white pox) diease is a killing off of the the life around the coral, the bactreia there seems to be 3 or more types living on it , it is all temp related, ( see the think tank thread " white pox" i posted a bit ago). hate to say it but can you check the temps around that coral?
fragging it off maybe the immeditae anser but not the answer to why.

[Loverotties]

I agree with Tim.

[aussiereefer82]

Originally Posted by tims

Mikey
the white band( white pox) diease is a killing off of the the life around the coral, the bactreia there seems to be 3 or more types living on it , it is all temp related, ( see the think tank thread " white pox" i posted a bit ago). hate to say it but can you check the temps around that coral?
fragging it off maybe the immeditae anser but not the answer to why.

What Tim said.

My earlier post of RTN was only a guess, I am no SPS expert.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by aussiereefer82

Could it be RTN. How rapidley is it bleaching?? If it is RTN act quickley as you could possibly lose all your SPS. Do a search for RTN, and start fragging if it is!

I've had the coral for a little over a month. From day one, there was a very small bit of recession at the base. I'm thinking RTN, but the fact that it's taken a month to get as bleached as it is...doesn't RTN work faster than that? Each day, it's maybe a mm more that's bleached. But it seems to have slowed down in the last 2 days. Maybe it's just stressed, and unhappy? Don't know.

I'll try moving it right next to the other one that's doing good. See if it'll bounce back. If it's still spreading in a couple days, I'll chop it up, and keep the good pieces.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by tims

Mikey
the white band( white pox) diease is a killing off of the the life around the coral, the bactreia there seems to be 3 or more types living on it , it is all temp related, ( see the think tank thread " white pox" i posted a bit ago). hate to say it but can you check the temps around that coral?
fragging it off maybe the immeditae anser but not the answer to why.

Tim...I'm not doubting you...but I am curious how you came to that conclusion. (so I can better diagnose in the future).

It's funny you mention that...as I have a ceiling fan above the tank that has to be on at all times to maintain 81-81.5°. a couple weeks ago, I turned the fan off at night...(planning to turn it on in the morning). I forgot. And when I got back from work, the tank was 83°. I did the same thing about a week later. And then, this past weekend, I had someone watching the tank/house...and they had the fan off all day Sat and Sun.

So in the past month, the tank's been at 83° a few times. So there's probably a good chance you're right.

Is White band reversable? I can frag...but if it's a stress thing, and doing a better job of maintaining parms will bring the whole thing back to life, then I'd rather try that.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by skeety

Tim...I'm not doubting you...but I am curious how you came to that conclusion. (so I can better diagnose in the future).

I'm gonna attempt to answer my own question here, and save Tim the trouble.

Read the article(s) you've pointed me too, and here's why I think you came to the conclusion you did:

1. White Pox only affects Branching Elkhorn (Acropora palmata) and Staghorn Acro's. Which my Acro appears to be one of them.

2. White Pox appears to be the only SPS disease that causes bleaching in random spots over the coral...as opposed to starting at the base, or starting at the tips.

[tims]

i could be way off.. i am not very knowledgeable on SPS , perhaps tom or jerel willpop in also. as far as the RNT , i thought als that it moves faster and does not really bleach the coral..
i wish i could be more help........

[skeety]

okay...let me ask one more final question then.

With SPS's...acro's especially. is there ANY hope of tissue regrowth over the bleached area's? Meaning...do I have ANY reason not to frag the healthy parts of this coral?

[tdwyatt]

Sorry to not have responded sooner, today is my first day off (finally) in a few weeks.


With RTN, your coral will be totally bleached, usually overnight, and although the tissue will still be on the skeleton, it will be totally clear, and appear to be bare (but on close examination, you'll be able to see the polyps still, especially at night). Interesting to see cyclopeze feeding in thes specimens, as the red cyclopeae can then bee seen in the gut lumen of the polyps.


What you've described could be (I believe to be) a response to shipping damage, physical handling (remember, if you have to touch the specimen's tissue, be VERY gentle), or it could just be issues with conditions such as inadequate lighting, too much lighting, not enough curculation/current on the specimen, etc.


With your specimen, do you see denuded coenosteum, or do you see bleaching in the spots where the color is gone from the coenenchyme? This is an important differentiation for a generic diagnosis. Under some situations, minor damage in closed systems will result in a mixed bag of opportunistic bacteria causing a localized tissue infection that will result in tissue sloughing off the coenosteum. Once established, this "ulcer" may cause a slow spread to other areas of otherwise healthy tissue as the bacterial mix releases tissue toxins that lead to necrosis. Although you may have white pox, I don't feel that this is the actual culprit in your issues with the specimens discussed so far. Before we go much further in this, check out the NOAA summary for reef-building diseases and a link to the support site contained in the web page. What you're experiencing is most likely the opportunistic infection discussed already, and is exacerbated by bouts of temps into the 83F or higher range, along with other potential stressors for the corals. Too intense lighting, not enough lighting, salinity swings, inadequate alkalinity and/or calcium, inadequate proportionality of the conservative elements, etc., may combine to cause loss of immunity for specimens that have handling or shipping damage. Treatment may involve localized swabbing with a dilute iodine solution, iodine baths for 5 min, or treatment with chloramphenicol or kanamycin pastes to the affected areas. In resistant cases, or in colonies of small size, fragging with a 1 cm margin is indicated, followed by an iodine bath, attachment to a synthetic base, and removal from the general water column to a recovery tank until the bases have encrusted. You may be able to get the specimen to recover, but if the area of tissue loss was large, it is unlikely that the specimen will completely grow healthy tissue back over the dead coenosteum. This is not to say that it won't, just unlikely that you will see a specimen fully regrow and appear as if nothing had happened. For this reason, you may want to cut the healthy part of the specimen away as a frag, or use the dead skeleton as the attachment point (with the dead part facing the substrate), and move the specimen down in the tank to lower light and good current until the ultimate cause of the damage can be determined.


Lots of causes, difficult to determine which particular one is the cause.


HTH

[skeety]

okay. So the only thing I can add is...where the bleaching has occured, I see NO polyps. It's more than just bleaching...it's a death of those polyps.

As for shipping damage...well, I got this guy from That Fish Place (when I made the big trip, and spent WAY too much money). I was there from pulling it out, to baggin, to driving, to adjustment, to placement in the tank. the base the frag was attached to was the ONLY thing touched during all of these steps. I'm pretty sure it was shipping damage. But the recent stress I've placed on the frag is more likely the culprit.

I'm getting the impression that I should just frag the coral.

So now questions about fraggin' an acros. I bought some wire cutter's today (7"). Will this be the best tool to use? Creating a clean cut or break is the way to go, right? Also, there's one branch I'd like to frag with bleaching at it's base, and at the very tip. it's one of the longer branches. Can I cut the base and the tip? I plan to place the frag's in the 2-part putty...and discard the rest of the frag (in case it IS white pox or another infectious bacteria).

I think I can get 3 good frags out of this...so that's a plus.

You're saying the frag's should be placed at the bottom of the tank? I can guarantee good flow there...but lighting will be insufficient. Is this okay while it attaches to its base?

Also, Acro's can be out of the water more so than other corals, correct? If I get a big bowl, fill it with some water from the tank, and use it for fragging, I should be okay, right? I can pull the acro out of the water, make my cut, then place the pieces back in the bowl? ANythign else I need to know?

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by skeety

I'm getting the impression that I should just frag the coral.

Probably

Originally Posted by skeety

wire cutter's... Will this be the best tool to use?

either one of these tools or a vet's small bone nipper (surgical tool)

Originally Posted by skeety

Creating a clean cut or break is the way to go, right? Also, there's one branch I'd like to frag with bleaching at it's base, and at the very tip... Can I cut the base and the tip? I plan to place the frag's in the 2-part putty...and discard the rest of the frag

make the cut at least 1 cm away from any sign of tissue necrosis. The specimen without any healthy axial corallites (the one with the dead tip) may have a tough time making it, but I have seen similar specimens make it as well. Use some cyanoacrylate gel glue to seal over the top cut after the iodine bath, making sure to include a 1mm margin of the live tissue at the top cut to seal the coenosteum from algal infestation and encroachment. You may want to paint the top cut with a bit of more concentrated iodine, maybe iodine solution (cut and abrasion strength solution, not tincture) if possible prior to sealing, but the bath should do the trick.

Originally Posted by skeety

You're saying the frag's should be placed at the bottom of the tank? I can guarantee good flow there...but lighting will be insufficient. Is this okay while it attaches to its base?

You'll need to remind me about your tanks lighting and wattage, depth of the water column and substrate. If it is MH and the tank is shallow, then the bottom with direct lighting will be fine. If you're depending on VHO bulbs or PC, then leave them at the top, so long as there is good flow. If you have wrasses or sea urchins, then you need to take precautions to isolate these specimens from the fish and the urchins, as the wrasses will turn over the rock and specimen to look for food, and the urchins will... well, they'll be urchins and bulldoze the specimens from their perch.


Nothing kills a frag quicker than a night in the sand.

Originally Posted by skeety

Also, Acro's can be out of the water more so than other corals, correct? If I get a big bowl, fill it with some water from the tank, and use it for fragging, I should be okay, right? I can pull the acro out of the water, make my cut, then place the pieces back in the bowl? ANythign else I need to know?

put your iodine in the bowl for the bath, place the specimens in the bowl prior to cutting, then place a separate bowl there for the cut frags. Use the frags after they have been in the dip for ~5 min, pressing them into your putty balls or gluing them to plastic plugs. You can buy iodine as Kent Tech-D or Seachem's Reef Dip to make the dip (see the package for instructions, I think they use Potallium iodide to make this product or a mix of iodides and iodates), or if you have access to Lugol's solution (Strong Iodine Soln, USP) you can make your own by adding 40 drops to a gallon of saltwater, and make sure to immerse the specimens for no more than 7 minutes, this procedure should effectively disinfect a coral for our purposes here.

When I frag, I often place the cuttings directy from the specimen in a small (4 oz) tupperware cup (one for each specie) then start a production line of making the frags and plug assemblies, then dropping them into the rack. I have kept them out for 20 minutes (accidently, and maybe longer) and never had a decrease in survival rates (btw, expect to lose one out of 20 to 30 cuttings, sometimes better, sometimes worse depending on the state of health of the parent colony)

HTH