bio balls or no bio balls

[wtrguy]

have set up and cycled my 125 / one store says leave the bio balls in my sump system, as a redundant bio filter. The other says take some out each water change, till all gone. You can put live rock in there. I have about 100 l.b.s of L.R in tank now and the water is perfect. I do want it to be a reef tank, not just salt water.

wtrguy

[ChrisPrusha]

I would follow the advice of the second store.

[tims]

hehhe

this is an age old question, you will get many answers to this.

i agree withthe second LFS. if you do not have any coral or fish in the tank right now. then remove all of your bio balls and let the tank sit a little longer as it catches up. the Bio balls do not let a full denitrofication occur.
you can easily lace some live rock rrubble in the same place as long as it is fully submerged in the holding area. or you can leave it open with nothing in it at all.
can you post a picture of the filter area?

[Tim224DT]

I agree with the second LFS take the bioballs out. If you have no fish then take them all out at once then wait like Tims said. However IMO this being a 125gallon tank with 100lbs of LR i would recomend about another 50lbs of LR. The general rule is about 1 to 1.5 lbs per gallon. What kind of skimmer are you going to be using on this tank?


Tim


Here is a good article on what you can do with a sump without bioballs......
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ight=bio+balls

[wtrguy]

The tank does have fish / it is a little over 4 mnths old / still working on resizing pic sizes so i can post them. Fish are 2-striped damsels / 4 yellow tail damsels / " got these from a friend to help cycle the tank, cant get my hands on them now in the reef. Have 1-gobie / 2-cleaner shimp / 1-yellow tang / some snails and 3-hermits. There are lots of stuff that come out of the L.R at lunar time. All fish are fine and water is good. Nitrates are around 4.0 Nitrites can't detect / p.h 8.2 / salinity is between 1.022 & 1.023 / alk is 170 / or 3.5 meq/l or 9.8 dkh i do have a little amonia 0.25 callcium is at 450 / tank has 3'' of live sand, i will start to remove bio-balls slowly as i add more L.R

Thank you
wtrguy

Originally Posted by Tim224DT

I agree with the second LFS take the bioballs out. If you have no fish then take them all out at once then wait like Tims said. However IMO this being a 125gallon tank with 100lbs of LR i would recomend about another 50lbs of LR. The general rule is about 1 to 1.5 lbs per gallon. What kind of skimmer are you going to be using on this tank?


Tim


Here is a good article on what you can do with a sump without bioballs......
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ight=bio+balls

[wtrguy]

(((( The skimmer is a redsea Berlin))) Was not happy with it and have found lots of better designs. It is plumed outside the sump has been modifide by my self and is working well // put a big Maxie jet on it with a ball valve to cut baxk water as needed / added one more homemade baffel in #1 tube to break up air bubbles better / and added a big air pump to the veturie with a ball valve for air control have a little check valve in the air line just as a back up, skims about 1/2 cup of dark green stuff in 24 hrs..

Originally Posted by wtrguy

The tank does have fish / it is a little over 4 mnths old / still working on resizing pic sizes so i can post them. Fish are 2-striped damsels / 4 yellow tail damsels / " got these from a friend to help cycle the tank, cant get my hands on them now in the reef. Have 1-gobie / 2-cleaner shimp / 1-yellow tang / some snails and 3-hermits. There are lots of stuff that come out of the L.R at lunar time. All fish are fine and water is good. Nitrates are around 4.0 Nitrites can't detect / p.h 8.2 / salinity is between 1.022 & 1.023 / alk is 170 / or 3.5 meq/l or 9.8 dkh i do have a little amonia 0.25 callcium is at 450 / tank has 3'' of live sand, i will start to remove bio-balls slowly as i add more L.R

Thank you
wtrguy

[Geoff]

yep, remove them over time.

bioballs are fine for FO or FOWLR systems where ammonia control is of prime concern. nitrate is a much less toxic compound.

what is going on is this. bioballs are an oxigen rich environment. this environment breeds the bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite, they do not break down nitrates. the nitrates will then slowly build up since they are not being broken down until later, which usually does not occur. bacteria needed to break down nitrates require an anoxic environment. this is located in the substrate and in the LR. it is actually located on any constantly submerged surface. these submerged surfaces are able to complete the entire nitrogen cycle. thus nitrates are not released back into the system. they are removed at the same time as the other toxins.

G~

[WilyGuy]

Neuter the tank.

Do it slow or it WILL be painful.

Also, if person's were speaking for the LFS, go to the second and maybe tell the first why you won't be patronizing them.

[Loverotties]

I agree with the 2nd place but doing that add like 100 lbs more of live rock.The rule is 1 1/2 - 2 lbs of Live Rock per gallon.

[wtrguy]

I took out 25 balls this am then took the others and stuck the together end to end, put them in the botom of the sump under the support grid,"they are almost under water, cleaned out the top pad an reinstalled. will get 20 l.b.s of more rock and take more out at the next water change. Thank you.....
wtrguy

Originally Posted by Geoff

yep, remove them over time.

bioballs are fine for FO or FOWLR systems where ammonia control is of prime concern. nitrate is a much less toxic compound.

what is going on is this. bioballs are an oxigen rich environment. this environment breeds the bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite, they do not break down nitrates. the nitrates will then slowly build up since they are not being broken down until later, which usually does not occur. bacteria needed to break down nitrates require an anoxic environment. this is located in the substrate and in the LR. it is actually located on any constantly submerged surface. these submerged surfaces are able to complete the entire nitrogen cycle. thus nitrates are not released back into the system. they are removed at the same time as the other toxins.

G~

[Twitterbait]

I agree with the first, but then i always have...

[Hogan]

hey thats what I was thinking if the concept is submerged surface versus in the air why not just submerge all the bio balls in the sump.

[Chris86]

I agree with the second LFS take the bioballs out.

[xtopher]

Originally Posted by Hogan

hey thats what I was thinking if the concept is submerged surface versus in the air why not just submerge all the bio balls in the sump.

I think that the main problem with bioballs is that they become saturated with the nitrifying bacteria, once the saturation point is met any extra nitrifying bacteria sloughs off and dies causing toxic compounds to form underneath the anaerobic section underneath the bioballs. Is this correct Geoff???

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by xtopher

I think that the main problem with bioballs is that they become saturated with the nitrifying bacteria, once the saturation point is met any extra nitrifying bacteria sloughs off and dies causing toxic compounds to form underneath the anaerobic section underneath the bioballs. Is this correct Geoff???

good, thinking, but not quite. i think you are combining to many theories here.

just submerging the bioballs will help, but they just do not have a decent amount of surface area to be all that good. they also trap detritus, which adds another bad component to the mix. this detritus if left to decay releases its bound phosphates, help fueling any algae in the system. adding anything into this area just makes it more difficult to clean out when you need to. the more things you have in the sump the more likely it will act like a settling tank. not necessarily a bad thing if this is what you want it to do, but if not than it can be another place that needs regular cleaning to remove detritus.

if left long enough detritus can get so deep that it can go anoxic and form toxic compounds. this has to be pretty deep though.

G~