ARGH! Acro with RTN?

[skeety]

okay...I went to bed last night, and this frag was fine. Just posted a pic of it yesterday.

now...less than 14 hours later, look at it.

Does it have RTN? Wouldn't there be a line of gunk at the end of it? Slime, anything? Looks like it literally bleached overnight.

Tips?

(I guess the biggest one you're gonna tell me, is to get it the heck away from the others?)

yesterday: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/at...chmentid=28507

today:

[tdwyatt]

RTN, what are the tank temps? water current? did you do the iodine bath when making the frags? how long a photoperiod, how long since the cuttings, and what type of lighting and how old are the bulbs?

[tdwyatt]

Addendum: any soft corals especially Octocorals, or stony corals with sweepers in the same tank? This potential problem with octocorals would be exacerbated if the softies have been in the tank for a while without carbon, or if they were recently cut (some are worse than others when cut).


Hate to see this for new frags, are these new to your tank from another system, frags from a sick coral, or frags from healthy corals already in your system and already accustomed to your lighting scheme?

[Casey]

Isnt that the one that had it so you fragged it to save it?

[tdwyatt]

looking at the pix again, I might throw in that sometimes excessive handling of the coral or excessive use of pressure may cause the pattern seen in the horizontal specimen if there is excessively strong lighting when introducing a coral to a new set of conditions.

[skeety]

Some clarifications:

The frag in question was one that I'd bought at the MACNA convention. NOT the one I fragged to save it. (those frags, along with all others, are doing great! Polyps out, new growth already showing, etc)

The horizontal specimen is fine. It did have some fading (from pushing it onto the new mount, I suspected), but the color's coming back, and he seems fine.

The verticle specimen has been removed, as by the time I went back down stairs, it was almost completely dead.

There was a torch coral about 5 inches away, but you can see that the flow is pushing it's tenticles out and away from the frags. so even if it did for sweepers, I don't think they could make contact.

Really not sure what happened. Tank Parms are fine (amm, 'trites, 'trates all zero), temp is 80-81°, pH goes from 8.0 to 8.2. Calcium might be a little high 500, and Alk is around 9dKh. Phosphates are zego, and I don't have a test for magnesium, but I do a 16% water changes every other week with IO Reef Crystals.

My guess it is had something from when I got it? Or something just ticked it off (hermits have been cleaning the frag stand...they really don't bother the corals, but the eggcrate is getting a slight haze of algae on it...so they keep it clean).

Just chalk it up as an unexplained loss, as long as the others all look fine, which thy currently do.

As for the other frags I made to save the coral, yes...I did the iodine bath for about 10 minutes with each one, right before I put them in the tank. Should I maybe start using an iodine bath prior to adding purchased frags as well? Guess it can't hurt, eh?

[yardboy]

Tom, what is your formula for an iodine bath? I had a table that was rtn'ing and I never could stop it. Some frags lasted as much as a month, but eventually the whole thing died.

[Casey]

I have tried another table since then Rog with a iodine bath it died to.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by yardboy

Tom, what is your formula for an iodine bath? I had a table that was rtn'ing and I never could stop it. Some frags lasted as much as a month, but eventually the whole thing died.

this thread:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...highlight=acro

post #15, Tom told me exactly how to give the iodine bath

[yardboy]

Originally Posted by skeety

this thread:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...highlight=acro

post #15, Tom told me exactly how to give the iodine bath

Thanks

[Casey]

Thats how I dip them to.

[tdwyatt]

I knew it was on here somewhere, thanks for the link Skeety!


btw, table Acropora can go bad rather quickly without adequate circulation, and once they start to RTN, (or sometimes just a generalized injury or failure with patchy losses of tissue) the whole of the colony usually dies. One of my favorite corals was an Acropora cuneata sent to me by one of my friends in Oz, very unusual in that it appears to be a bumpy Montipora capricornis or related plating Montipora spp, but an unusual color for Monties (pale light cream and blue) and is differentiated by the coralites (very elaborate fine spinules throughout the coenosteum that cannot be seen when the coenenchyme is intact and intricate corallites), a piece of the colony was accidently fragged off and died, (how I ID'd the coral), but the colony recovered within 3 weeks so that you could not tell it had been damaged. About a year later, the colony had gotten rather large, and had grown into near contact with a Euphyllia spp of Torch coral. I changed a few things in the tank one evening and moved a powerhead, but did not check to see where the flow went (so long as it did not directly blast nearby corals). When I came home the next afternoon, I discovered that the Torch had changed direction of the tentacles and had stung the A. cuneata and left a small (less than 0.5cm^2) patch of damage. I changed the flow, and moved the Torch, but ended up loosing the Acro specimen over about 2 weeks of slow tissue loss (fragging did not succeed). I had a similar experience with Acropora indonesia (horizontally branching specie with upturned tips).


One of the consequences of having a large number of actively growing corals in a small space, I guess I SHOULD be glad, and a little more cautious about allowing such close proximity among potentail competitors...

[Casey]

Tom when it comes to the tables I was thinking flow was part of it from what I read they are one of the most demanding SPS for high flow these guys just love it all around them.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by Casey

Tom when it comes to the tables I was thinking flow was part of it from what I read they are one of the most demanding SPS for high flow these guys just love it all around them.

Absolutely.


In the wild, one usually finds thes specimens in this growth morphology in areas where tidal flow is high, or near dropoffs where current is forced to accelerate to negotiate a rise or a narrow channel near the surface.


For these corals, flow is EVERYTHING, and should be placed within decent proximity to tunze stream-types of devices: lots of flow, but not too direct nor too high a velocity stream (like unmodified powerhead outputs that would strip coenenchyme off the skieleton)

[Casey]

Ah ha thats what I thought I have 2 more Tunzes streams on order and 2 in the tank now so I should be ok when I get them in combined with my closed loop it should flow good.