Aquacon Damage???

[Salt Creep]

I read the threads about Aquacon that were being hashed out on a couple different boards and I have to say that judging by the results I think our boards have hurt the hobby by the mob-mentality and bashing that got very personal and oddly focused to seemingly attempt to drive a business into the gutter.

Albee most likely will not take over the MO managers job now due to the negative attacks he received here on line.......who does that help?? He sounds like someone with at least above average marine knowledge compared to the guy who already works there that doesn't even know about a 6500K Iwasaki. Aquacon may be a bad store and Albee may have goofed up but now he will never get the chance to make that store any better which is what we should all want.......should but don't. Instead for some reason people feel the need to attack....or just cheer on someone else under the false-noble notion that you are somehow helping out........you are not!! Not only have you most likely damaged the income of many people that may have a family depending on them but you more likely ensured that another school kid who doesn't know Iwasaki from Kawasaki will be filling orders at Aquacon..............oh but I forgot we are helping right???

I am not defending anything that Aquacon has done but it really seems sad that the boards have now now become a place that is used to intimidate companies with public thrashing if they don't meet our standards. Posting of bad experiences is fine and helpful especially if the company replies and all is well in the end, but i fear we are heading towards a trend of people calling in an order and saying BTW I am active on 4 internet boards so if you screw up I will tell EVERYONE NEVER to buy from you again......that is just not fair. It doesn't help anyone.

Could Aquacon be doing better??.....I'm sure we all could. Will they as a result of these threads??.....doesn't look like it. Did we help or hurt the hobby??...I sure don't think we helped it any.

Remember why we are here.....we are not a lynch mob.

[Doug1]

While I agree with your concerns over mob mentality, from what I read on Reefland it would appear that Albee is rethinking his career choice with that store. Obviously I don't have access to everything that went on but it sounded to me like it was a conclusion he came to on his own. Too bad, often times all it takes is one person that cares to turn it around, but on the other hand if the owner doesnt care then you get tired of beatin your head against the wall.
The policy of this board has always been to post good experiences along with the bad. When people have bad experiences and bag on vendors we encourage them to exhaust all means of recourse before condeming the vendor online. We also encourage the vendor to tell their side of the story. A lot of times theres more involved than first seen.
Unfortunatly things go wrong in MO or retail and a satisfactory solution isn't always found. Most vendor will usually accomadate customers or take care of problems, however sometimes this doesnt happen and I for one want to know who is consistantly screwing up or doesnt care that I didn't get what I wanted. There are enuff dependable vendors that take care of customers, that we don't need the ripoffs. As far as slandering people and driving them out of business, theres a lot of difference between outright slander and a lot of people reporting negative experiences. If someone works for a company that engages in shoddy or decietful practices they need to understand that long term employment aint gonna happen. Should I continue to throw money at some unscrupulous vendor because he has employees with families? NO, I have a family that doesnt appreciate me wasting money. Besides anyone who deliberatly hires young people to keep wages down isnt doing a lot to support bread winners.
Its an imperfect world and the net just opens everyone up to closer scrutiny, so it behooves vendors to do it right. Also as consumers we need to be specific about our wants when ordering and hash out the details before hand. I agree with you that using board membership as leverage is inapropriate but on the other hand at least in the reef trade most of the good vendors monitor many boards and if they fulfill their part its a moot point

[reefaddict]

Interesting Topic...

My one note would be that... I think you credit more power to these internet based boards than they really have.

If you counted all the registered members of the "big" boards, I think it comes to about 12000. Consider that many people are registered on multiple boards, that number will decrese quickly....

The US alone has a population of over 270 million.... If just 1% of the population has an aquarium (and I assume that number is very very low) that would mean there are at least 2.7 million aquariums out there...

That means you are reaching less that .4 % of the hobby population.

[naser]

well no one would get slammed if they just did good business!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ninong]

Reply to Salt Creep ~

Originally posted by Salt Creep (on another board):
Were my comments directed at NINONG?? No. Is his tank thread a good example?? Yes.

Thank you. I believe I did a service to the hobby and to the tank builder by letting him know what I had read about his business online. We had a very cordial conversation and he persuaded me that should I decide to place the order with him, he would guarantee that I was satisfied and hoped that I would tell my friends on the bulletin boards about my new tank because those "internet guys tell the whole world about their tanks."

Quite a few members of the boards I am registered on have thanked me for the fact that the builder gave them the same personal attention and extra special pricing (cheaper than mine) when they mentioned that they had seen pictures of my new Starphire tank online. Also, a couple of members have already received tanks from that company that were ordered before my tank pics were posted, and they are pleased with their tanks.

So, IMHO, everybody is happy here. The builder is most certainly happy and has received copies of every post on every board discussing my new tank. He doesn't have a personal computer, or even an e-mail account, and is now amazed at the power of the internet. And I am sure that he will give his very personal attention to all of the new orders that were placed by members of the board.

And since the title you gave this thread is "Setting the record straight," I would like to copy what I said in my original tanks pics thread:

Originally posted by another member:
Basically, you threatened the aquarium manufacturer before he built your tank. I wonder if the story would have been different if you had not threatened him.

My reply:
This may be my fault for over dramatizing the conversation. I did not seriously expect to order the tank from Canada. I called mostly out of curiosity. After the builder faxed me a written proposal, I became more interested but, to be honest, had serious reservations because of the negative reports I had read.

When I called the builder back, the first thing I told him I wanted to discuss was the Scott Sweet situation. He was very familiar with the name, and we talked about what happened. I mentioned to him that I was active on four different reefkeeping bulletin boards and that was how I had found out about Scott Sweet's experience. It was at this point that he told me that he would guarantee that I would be pleased with my tank and that he would personally see to it that it was a "Cadillac" tank. He also mentioned the names of 4 or 5 different LFS that order Starphire tanks from him on a regular basis. He mentioned the name of a large pet store chain in Canada that he is building the in-store holding tanks for.

So, I think that "threatened" is too strong a word. I explained my "reservations" and he offered "assurances." Of course I think my tank received special attention. It did not occur to me to discourage him from giving my order his personal attention.


Ninong

[Thallone]

Sure, there may only be 12000 or so board members, but of those, how many of the active members and lurkers are LFS owners and employees that are going to use what is said on these boards to decide what products to not recommend to their customers. I agree that still is not the majority, buyt it will have an impact

[Bamm Bamm]

I still can't believe you keep posting these threads up..Crabby, salt creep, salty dog whatever your name is.. Anyways it kinda seems to me like you like to have peopel make a fool out of you and I truly and curious at what your trying to accomplish..Personally I feel you have accomplished nothing but made a bunch of people kinda irritated with you..Dan

[Doug1]

Ok I think the thread is starting to outlive its usefullness, and I don't want to see it deteriorate into a flame fest. I let it go on as there was valuable info traded regarding netiquette and the power of the internet.
Rather than it turning into a slugfest, I am going to close it now