all of a sudden....

chandu64 · 08-19-2007, 07:43 PM

hey guys, its alex, newly promoted assistant manager of tanks a lot of central florida!!! i got a quick question if i may. i have a regal tang that i had for about a year. its about 3 inches. i soak my food in garlic guard and feed him a variety of food. about 1 month ago, i started noticing his tail becoing tattered, like someone barly clip them with scissors. it progressively got worse and he is about to go. now my unicorn tang is showing the same symtoms the regal inatially had. i dont know what is causing this and i do not want to loose my unicorn. if n e one could shed some light on the matter, that would be absolutly terrific. thanks!!

29 gal, 400w metal halide, 65wt actinic, model 125 wet/dry, model 75 skimmer, 40 lbs of lr, 40lbs ls, regal, unicorn, royal gramma, perc clown, red mushroom, toadstool leather, open brain, star polyps, xenia, frog spawn, torch, ball sponge, montipora, ricordia, acros,

0'z across the board, ph 8.2, sal 1.022, all coral are doing great

Tommy Gun · 08-19-2007, 07:49 PM

Sounds like fin and tail rot...even though that is not always spoken of in the salty world all that often as far as I have noticed, it is still a reality.

While I am obviously not a biologist, vet, doctor, or otherwise trained to diagnose something like this, your description, and the fact that another fish (in the same tank or otherwise connected in one system?) has the same issue, a bacterial infection seems pretty likely.

Quarantine is probably the very first step I would take...especially if you are going to need the assistance of an anti-biotic. Attmittedly, I could help a lot more if this was a freshwater situation, but I have heard of tail/fin rot in salty tanks; in particular, at one LFS I visit once in a while.

betamed · 08-19-2007, 08:18 PM

its gonna be hard to keep tangs long term in a 29g.

hng · 08-19-2007, 08:27 PM

Good advice so far. I'm gonna lay it on you easy cause there will be some people rushing at you to tell you it's a bad idea to keep a tang (2 tangs is really a bad idea) in such a small tank. Most likely, the stress of the small tank is leading to a compromised immune system and death by infection. Find a new and bigger home for the tangs if you can. Good luck.

hng · 08-19-2007, 08:29 PM

BTW, congrats on your promotion. I hope that you will provide your customers with the good advice of never putting a tang into a tank smaller than 55 gallons - and even that would be pushing the minimal size.

Loverotties · 08-19-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hng

Good advice so far. I'm gonna lay it on you easy cause there will be some people rushing at you to tell you it's a bad idea to keep a tang (2 tangs is really a bad idea) in such a small tank. Most likely, the stress of the small tank is leading to a compromised immune system and death by infection. Find a new and bigger home for the tangs if you can. Good luck.

I was going to say the same thing.

Twitterbait · 08-19-2007, 08:33 PM

Honestly, if you donot see a fungus or anything else on the fins then it is very likely from the small tank...

zxcv123 · 08-19-2007, 08:33 PM

I kept a half-dollar sized regal tank in a 29 gallon for two years without any trace of disease or aggression. I had open rock work so the tank could do unrestricted laps around the rockwork You may see ich when first introduced, but they will get stong and overcome it with a healthy diet and good water quality. He grew up until about 2" long and I traded him back to the store for a firefish. It is possible, IME, for it to thrive in your tank, but will obiously have to be traded in after it gets over 2".

no offense to anybody, but I think that disease occuring in small tangs due to too small a space(provinging there is great water quality and good diet) is Bologni. In a larger tang, over 1.5",. I would def. agree with that though.

However, your tank is large, You should treat him and get him better with freshwater baths and garlic in the food and bring him back to the store.

zxcv123 · 08-19-2007, 08:42 PM

When you say unicorn tang, do you mean the naso? Nasos get Huge and even in their infancy the should not be confined to anything close to 29 g.
Get this guy a bigger home please.

Tommy Gun · 08-19-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

its gonna be hard to keep tangs long term in a 29g.

Wow, I must be slacking...I didnt even notice the info on a 29 gallon.

Quote:

some people rushing at you to tell you it's a bad idea to keep a tang (2 tangs is really a bad idea)

Great point! I agree completely with tank size and to some extent, the tank shape being an important factor when tangs are in it (true, the same applies to any lifestock, but IMO and IME, slightly more so when tangs are kept). Not that I want to 'talk down' on anyone, or sound like I believe I know everything, I think it is worth mentioning the fact that a lot, if not all, tangs truly need a lot of swimming space; which is above and beyond the potential adult size of a fish versus tank size.

Too add to that, earlier this year I finally made it down to the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago and it would have been very hard to notice how large unicorn tangs can grow to...in my estimation, probably about two, two and a half feet long. I also dont think that I ever saw one of the Shedd's unicorns stop swimming for more than a couple seconds, if not at all.

Quote:

Most likely, the stress of the small tank is leading to a compromised immune system and death by infection.

Not that you really need my aproval, but I completely agree with you on this. I also feel that it is important to know that overstocking (at least as far as number of fish is concerned), which IMHO and IME, is the case here with all of those fish, can lead to stress and a myriad of problems, including bacterial infections like fin rot. In fact, poor water quality is often times listed as one cause of fin/tail rot. Although, while I have never tried to count them, it is probably true that there are copious amounts of stress-inducing practices or factors which can also lead to the same issues (i.e. salinity, water temp, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc...etc...etc...)

Tommy Gun · 08-19-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

I kept a half-dollar sized regal tank in a 29 gallon for two years without any trace of disease or aggression

Not to make fun of you or anything of that nature but it sounds as if you are implying that your regal tang was the size of a half dollar for the entire duration of its life and/or the entire time you kept it. If that is the case, don't you think something would be wrong with your fish not growing? In fact, one well known online LFS lists the potential size of a regal tang as being in the area of a foot long. So, while I realize that a lot of us have different experiences as to what works and what doesnt, I dont think the fact that a fish stays so small in relation to its potential size is an undebatable problem. (Although I am sure some would disagree with me on that)

No offense but this sounds a lot like the seemingly high number of hobbyists I have spoke with or read about in which they are 'bragging', for the lack of a better term, that he or she is very skilled because they were able to keep the goldfish he/she won at the fair for an entire two years...only to find out that a goldfish can easily live for 20+ years and grow much much larger than one might think.

As far as the whole theory of a fish not being able to out grow its tank (aka, is stunted), I would say that it is very true...however, for reasons other than positive; meaning a fish stops growing when it dies. In reality, when a fish is 'stunted' due to what ever reason, it is important to know that while its body may stop growing, its internal organs do not; arguably putting the fish in pain, but almost certainly leading to a premature death.

zxcv123 · 08-19-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Gun

Not to make fun of you or anything of that nature but it sounds as if you are implying that your regal tang was the size of a half dollar for the entire duration of its life and/or the entire time you kept it. If that is the case, don't you think something would be wrong with your fish not growing?

he was a little baby when I got him , less than the size of a quarter, and grew to about the size of a half dollar over the course of two years and was aprox. that size when he was turned in.

Im am bracing my self to get flamed, and have the poliece come and get me, but no matter what anyone thinks, I am a very responsible, conciencious, and nature respecting aquarist who is fully aware of the limits of the home tank and more perticularly the smaller aquarium.

Tommy Gun · 08-19-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Im am bracing my self to get flamed

Please dont jump to that conclusion since that is the least of my intentions. Obviously this form of communication allows for a lot of 'reading between the lines' and so it is often hard to 'hear' how I am saying what I am typing. That said, I am only trying to bring up some points which I have learned about in case they may help...not because I want to be any sort of 'expert' or know it all. Nor am I trying to imply that you are not responsible or ethical. So, I apologize if I seem to 'come off' in a negative manner.

Still, to help support what I have said thus far, would you feel that your tang was well taken care of if someone pointed out that they have a lifepan in the range of eight or more years (in captivity anyways)...meaning yours only made it for 1/4 of its full potential? Or...

Quote:

no offense to anybody, but I think that disease occuring in small tangs due to too small a space(provinging there is great water quality and good diet) is Bologni. In a larger tang, over 1.5",. I would def. agree with that though.

...if someone pointed out the fact that there is not really a division created between a 'large' tang and a 'small' or 'dwarf' tang like is the case with marine angels, for example? If I remember correctly, the Kole tang is one of, if not the smallest tang and even then, it can reach 5 or so inches in length

zxcv123 · 08-19-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Gun

Please dont jump to that conclusion since that is the least of my intentions. Obviously this form of communication allows for a lot of 'reading between the lines' and so it is often hard to 'hear' how I am saying what I am typing. That said, I am only trying to bring up some points which I have learned about in case they may help...not because I want to be any sort of 'expert' or know it all.

I am more than willing to hear and respect your points of view, that comment was by no means aimed at you, I was trying to say that there will be repricussions and other people online coming after me for statng my experience.

I, in fact, agree with alot of what you are saying, tangs in general should not be kept in small tanks, but I am just sharing a sucess story of bringing up a small tang in a small tank to dissuade people from just stating "tangs cant be kept in small tanks" without any actual experience to back up their statment.

Tommy Gun · 08-19-2007, 09:19 PM

I am glad to hear that you understand what I am trying to get across. Not to beat a dead horse but...

Quote:

I am just sharing a sucess story of bringing up a small tang in a small tank.

...I guess what I am trying to say here is that this may not be considered much of a success at all by some hobbyists. I have also been editing a few of my previous posts to give more supporting info/ideas on my thoughts here but we may have been 'crossing posts' a little bit since you are replying as if we were on an instant messenger or something (which, IMHO, is pretty nice for a change)

Enough of that though...I dont want to get too off track or hijack this thread on my first day of being a member!