about to purchase lighting, thoughts on my schematic?

[mcliffy2]

After much deliberating to figure out how to work lighting with my cabinet, I think I've decided on 1 400w MH retro (probably 13-14k), complemented by some T5 retros. I need the 400w to penetrate the 30" tank, but 2 is out of the question for energy bill and heat reasons.

The options for the T5s are:
1) 2 x 36" 39w with individual reflectors (could I do both actinic? this is shown in drawing)
2) 4 x 36" 39w with individual reflectors (problem this is it would push MH more towards front of tank, and I'd like it slightly off center towards the back, so it is more centered over LR pile)
3) 2 x 36" 39w and 2 x 24" 24w (with this I could put 24s in front of MH, keeping MH more centered, but would push 36s over overflow more, so would detract somewhat from them).

Here is a schematic of option 1 (for option 2, T5 pushed to back a little and second set of 36s added b/t MH and first set of T5s, for option 3, 36s and MH pushed back a little, 24s in front of MH.

Thanks in advance.

[Wiskey]

If it were me I would try what you have drawen first, then get more atinics if you feel the need, I doubt you will. Actually if it were me I would do 2*250W MH for not much more power than you'll be burning with that 400W MH and get better light spred,..

That will reach the bottom with plenty of punch to keep LPS down low.

What kind of coral are you planning to keep?

Whiskey

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Wiskey

If it were me I would try what you have drawen first, then get more atinics if you feel the need, I doubt you will. Actually if it were me I would do 2*250W MH for not much more power than you'll be burning with that 400W MH and get better light spred,..

That will reach the bottom with plenty of punch to keep LPS down low.

What kind of coral are you planning to keep?

Whiskey

So you would do 2x250 MH (14k or mix?) and 2 actinic T9s?

Maybe you can explain, the guy I talked to on the phone made it sound like a 400 would penetrate better than 2x250 or 2x175, do you know what dictates the "penetration" of MH lighting?

Also, probably wasn't too clear with all the options, but to put 4 T5s instead of 2, I would have to shift the 36s back over the overflow box a little more. It seems like this would waste a fair amount of light, ofsetting some of the gain from being able to add 2 more, no?

[Wiskey]

If it were me I would light this tank with 2*250W Mh and not use atinics, you can do 14K bulbs if you want, remember a mag ballast will give you a little more punch, but you'll have to be carefull with bulb choice. This puts you at about the same power you were before, but gives you a much more even light spread.

If you were trying to do a SPS tank only,.. with SPS in the sandbed I could see the desire for 400W Hilides,.. but I don't think that's your plan (Please clarify what you plan to keep). With the 1*400W MH your going to have a good amount of light in the sand in the front, but out on the sides you'll have less light than if you went 250W.

Origanally I tried a single 250W XM 10K over a 4 foot tank,.. this is what I got:


Then I went with 2 bulbs:


You can see the difference it made in even light coverage,.. keep in mind one of these bulbs was an XM10K the other a lower ouput Coralview on the second cart.

Whiskey

[beach bum]

judging by my local sps guru's feedback, 1 x250 plus actinic should be plenty - concentrate on water quality. 400w is more than you need.

[Fly Guy]

I think it comes down to what your long term plans for this reef are. There is no denying that only one MH bulb is not going to get you that great of coverage on a 3 foot tank, but you do also need to consider that 30 is deep......even with 2 250's, the bottom of that tank is still going to be low light.

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Wiskey

If it were me I would light this tank with 2*250W Mh and not use atinics, you can do 14K bulbs if you want, remember a mag ballast will give you a little more punch, but you'll have to be carefull with bulb choice. This puts you at about the same power you were before, but gives you a much more even light spread.

If you were trying to do a SPS tank only,.. with SPS in the sandbed I could see the desire for 400W Hilides,.. but I don't think that's your plan (Please clarify what you plan to keep). With the 1*400W MH your going to have a good amount of light in the sand in the front, but out on the sides you'll have less light than if you went 250W.

Origanally I tried a single 250W XM 10K over a 4 foot tank,.. this is what I got:


Then I went with 2 bulbs:


You can see the difference it made in even light coverage,.. keep in mind one of these bulbs was an XM10K the other a lower ouput Coralview on the second cart.

Whiskey

That is awesome analysis....I'm a numbers guy, so that speaks to me. Looking at that, I think I will do the 1x400 (or maybe 1x250) b/c I think that works with my plans. I definitely don't think I'll do SPS right away...I'll start with LPS and soft corals and work up to SPS. My LR (and thus my corals) will be mostly centered in the tank due to the half circle design, almost arranged in a half cone around the middle. I'm leaving the edges open to provide more swimming room (want to keep 2 smaller tangs). Here's a diagram of my plans (you can kinda see if you look at my avatar too):

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by beach bum

judging by my local sps guru's feedback, 1 x250 plus actinic should be plenty - concentrate on water quality. 400w is more than you need.

What tank is he running a 250 on? Think I am going with 1 MH, so it is either 400 or 250...how much difference in heat will it make? I assume this is what you refer to by water quality? (I started the tank w/ RO/DI, so I think my water quality is pretty good otherwise)

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Fly Guy

I think it comes down to what your long term plans for this reef are. There is no denying that only one MH bulb is not going to get you that great of coverage on a 3 foot tank, but you do also need to consider that 30 is deep......even with 2 250's, the bottom of that tank is still going to be low light.

Probably some SPS, but more to the top of my arrangement (middle of tank and up). Still trying to understand what gets deep....will one 400w get deeper than 2x250, and if so why?

Oh, and the tank is actually a 4 ft tank, just have to put 36" lights on it (max) b/c of the semi-circle shape.

[Wiskey]

Ok

Under your bulb in the center will give you plenty of room for SPS,.. your LPS can dominate the lower sections of the center out to the edges, and the softies would probably be very happy to the corners of the tank.

Those readings were taken on a tank with dementions of 4 foot * 12" deep * 18" tall,.. the bulbs were 12" off the water, which is too high IMHO, but I was trying to waste some light to get my readings were I wanted them.

The readings were taken with a Lux meter compleate with submersable probe so meausrements could be taken under water. I did eventually go with 2*250 on that tank after looking at the readings,.. but then I was doing a 100% SPS tank.

Whiskey

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Wiskey

Ok

Under your bulb in the center will give you plenty of room for SPS,.. your LPS can dominate the lower sections of the center out to the edges, and the softies would probably be very happy to the corners of the tank.

Those readings were taken on a tank with dementions of 4 foot * 12" deep * 18" tall,.. the bulbs were 12" off the water, which is too high IMHO, but I was trying to waste some light to get my readings were I wanted them.

The readings were taken with a Lux meter compleate with submersable probe so meausrements could be taken under water. I did eventually go with 2*250 on that tank after looking at the readings,.. but then I was doing a 100% SPS tank.

Whiskey

Thanks again, you obviously have done your homework on this.

Mine will be closer, probably 6-7" off the water, and there is probably about 6" w/ no rock on either side of the center pile.

So what kind of fan do I need to keep this setup cool? any website you recommend to buy one? the place I'm ordering my light has the standard 3" for $40, but this seems kinda pricy. Does Home Depot or even a computer store carry them?

[Wiskey]

I have a temprature controller and use stanard home fans at the moment, when the tank hits 80 fans kick on, then shut off when the temp drops to 79. In the past I have used computer fans,.. when I finally compleate the finished hood (Right now the lights have been a test jig of sorts for the last 6 months to perfect pacement) I will use a bank of quiet 12V computer fans as a first stage (the bigger ones,.. I get them at fry's electronics),.. (on-80, off-79) then I will mount my twin BFF's in the canopy top for a second stage,.. these are HUGE noisy fans, and one of them can cool the tank. This will be a backup of sorts, they will come on when tank temp hits 81, and off at 79,.. so if the AC ever goes out during the summer I can still keep my tank cool and it will happen automatically. The reason I don't use only these is there very loud.

My current tank is a 125 with 3*350W XM10K 9" off the water's surface, I find this to be about perfect for what I'm doing, and with one clip on fan and one desktop fan it's more than enough to keep the tank cool with the fans running about half the time and the house at 75 Deg for winter.

HTH,
Whiskey

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Wiskey

I have a temprature controller and use stanard home fans at the moment, when the tank hits 80 fans kick on, then shut off when the temp drops to 79. In the past I have used computer fans,.. when I finally compleate the finished hood (Right now the lights have been a test jig of sorts for the last 6 months to perfect pacement) I will use a bank of quiet 12V computer fans as a first stage (the bigger ones,.. I get them at fry's electronics),.. (on-80, off-79) then I will mount my twin BFF's in the canopy top for a second stage,.. these are HUGE noisy fans, and one of them can cool the tank. This will be a backup of sorts, they will come on when tank temp hits 81, and off at 79,.. so if the AC ever goes out during the summer I can still keep my tank cool and it will happen automatically. The reason I don't use only these is there very loud.

My current tank is a 125 with 3*350W XM10K 9" off the water's surface, I find this to be about perfect for what I'm doing, and with one clip on fan and one desktop fan it's more than enough to keep the tank cool with the fans running about half the time and the house at 75 Deg for winter.

HTH,
Whiskey

So I'm trying to equate this to my less powerful setup. For 1 400w MH then, would one fan be enough (I guess a quiet computer fan from Fry's or CompUSA)?

[Wiskey]

Originally Posted by mcliffy2

So I'm trying to equate this to my less powerful setup. For 1 400w MH then, would one fan be enough (I guess a quiet computer fan from Fry's or CompUSA)?

The only way to know really is to try,.. if it starts to get too hot you can go get another one. Pulling air from outside the hood and blowing it right on the surface of the water has been best IME.

You can get a 12V power brick for about $12,. this will also do 9V if your fans are too loud, or cooling too much you can turn it down. I saw a box of 6 fans for $24 last time I was there,.. so it won't cost much to experiment.

Whiskey

[beach bum]

Originally Posted by mcliffy2

What tank is he running a 250 on? Think I am going with 1 MH, so it is either 400 or 250...how much difference in heat will it make? I assume this is what you refer to by water quality? (I started the tank w/ RO/DI, so I think my water quality is pretty good otherwise)

he runs dual 250's on a 120 reef tank. bulbs are approximately 10" off the water, tank is 2' top to bottom, so lights are about 34" from the bottom of tank.


Good reflectors will be your key, something like the lumenarc with a single 250, assisted by actinic will be plenty imo. but obviously it's always good to get many opinions so you feel comfortable with your setup.


good luck!