A/C Out!

[derosier]

This sucks! My A/C went out last night. Normally I have to keep my apartment about 72-75 degrees just to keep my tank at 82 (that new sump pump adds a LOT of heat). I turned off all electronics to my tank except for a fan and a powerhead to keep the water moving at the surface (sump, skimmer, lights, and the other powerheads are off). That was last night. I get up this morning and it is a good 85 degrees in the apartment and my tank is at 84 with no direction to go but up! Now I am at work worying about my critters!

I reported it to my managers this morning and I hope they have already fixed it otherwise I may have boiled seafood for dinner! Of course with my luck they'll have fixed the A/C but when they turned it on they upped the thermostat so it doesn't cool enough to get the tank temp down...

Perhaps I should invest in a chiller for moments just like these.

- Steve

[Drew]

Hmmm, maybe get your sump up and running again and then float plasic bags full of ice in the sump. I have heard of people doing this for temp cooling. HTH.

Drew

Ok just a counter point here. For years I have heard the Ice idea being passed around. I just do not see how one would risk shocking the tank or rather using an unregulated way to bring a vital component to reefs down. I mean threw out the set-up to stocking of the reef you will have thousand invested in it. I just do not see how anyone could float ice and think its a solution. The ice thing falls into my bandaid on a severed arm theroy of reef keeping. If heat is a concern of course you'll need a chiller. Don't disillusion yourself.The highest temp I ever hit was 88 and I did not even think of adding Ice to my sump. I got a few room fans and aimed one directly up( towards the lights) and one down ( towardds the sump) this brought my temp down rough a degree or two. This lasted only untill my lights turned of where the temp came down to reasonable levels. This is also one reason why I believe higher temp are better for rreef tanks as to lower. You get the system use to the higher temps and it will not show adverse affects from situations like what you discribed. Basically keep the ice in your vodka& cranbeery and buy a chiller jus to be safe. If you think a chiller is to expensive well no one ever said reefs are cheap.

[Drew]

To counter the counter point ,

Using ice is only a temporary solution, to a temporary problem. I don't think he needs to go out and buy a chiller if AC can do the same thing. When I said "temp cooling" I meant temporary cooling, not temperature. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. But in any case, I don't think floating ice will shock the tank if it is used in the sump. And of course, you would be there to monitor the tank throughout everything. You could also look to build a DIY chiller, try doing a search. I doubt floating ice in the sump is going to kill anything...HTH

Drew

[ReefJunkie]

Floating ice in a bag in small amounts is no different than having your heater kick on. If you through a large bag of ice in you could take the chance of shocking your system. I float Ice every once in awhile but I use a quart size bag about 3/4 of the way full. It takes quite a while and quite a few bags of Ice to even lower the temp a degree. As long as you slowly bring down the temp your safe.

[Rick O]

It's 46 gallons so it'll take quite a bit of ice. I doubt you could shock your tank. Maybe if it were 10 gal and you added it directly to the tank.... Why not just freeze your top-off water and don't worry about the plastic bags.

If your AC doesn't get fixed today you might try getting a couple extra fans and try to blow across the surface of the water. Also leave the stand doors open and put a fan blowing across the sump.

Good luck and let us know.

Rick

Temprary solution to what. His AC went out on him. To me if your tank overheated just cause the AC went out. That would warretn some concern from my stand point. It is fair to assume it can happen again. I do not know about you, but my tanks are quite a value to me and will not rely on floating ice in my tank as a chiller( controlled) is by far more practical. What if he was away on vacation and the AC went out who would float the ice for him. I did not mean to say floating was not a solution I just meant it was a dumb one. It makes the assumption that A the person is there to due it, and B the person has the ability to efffectively bring this tempuratue down for a prolonged period of time( usually 12hour or more. Are you willing to sit at a tank for that period of time to regulate temp levels. It will not necessarily kill the system to get to temps that high( from time to time), but using a the flaoting a bag in the tank does not solve the problem,but merely hides it. I have lost fuses and had my ac go out,but room temp held up and tank did not overheat. This leads me to believe something else is going on how well insulated is your home? How hot did it get? Does it reach those tempuratures often or is it seasonal? If it is seasonal I would opt for a chiller only for the summer to make SURE nothing goes wrong. Or if your filthy stinkin rich you can hire someone to stand there and float ice in your sump while you eat brunch on the rivera..........If your looking for a solution it would be the chiller. If your looking for a quick fix ice is fine. I however do not believe any quick fix is good not with this much invested in my tank or equipment

[Drew]

I did not mean to say floating was not a solution I just meant it was a dumb one.

Thanks

MrMike, I have to ask you, are you a chiller salesman?
And to answer your question posted here:

Are you willing to sit at a tank for that period of time to regulate temp levels.

If it meant I would save upwards of $700 to sit by my tank for 12 hours, yes I would do it. Besides, I can usually be found next to my tank anyway!
And actually, I believe that many people depend on AC units to keep their tanks cool, that way you get the added bonus of keeping the room cool too. I really doubt that there is anything wrong with his house, after all, it does usually get hotter in the summer

Drew

[DaveJ]

Try a block of ice and put it in a plastic bag that is double or trippled up so it doesn't melt into the sump. Then set it into the sump. Remember you will be displacing water. Just watch the temp.. I have read a lot of posts on here and on reef central wherer a lot of people have shown concern for temps up to 87 or 88. If its a short period of time, they didn't report any problems. Remember, animals and such are built to handle temp changes for short periods of time. Try the fans on the sump and on the top of the tank. You will probably get more evaporation. Fill it with cool water, not iced

[slash7]

I procrastinated for quite some time before I finally convinced myself to buy a chiller. They are SO expensive. But....my livestock is worth quite a bit more..I'd think nothing of dropping 1000 or so on lights, lights are important...that skimmer is how much?? oh well, gotta have it...all in the name of caring properly for the animals I have and keeping them healthy. I was constantly fighting high temps, tried a lot of different things and nothing was really satisfactory. I lost a few animals due to high temps and also noted some animals showing stress due to temp swings when I didn't get things right or over-reacted. Finally convinced myself to buy a chiller and it's a decision I've NEVER regretted. Temperature problems are no longer a worry. Living in Florida things can get really bad really fast as far as temperature goes, and Alinraz living in Texas has a similar problem. I know it's a big chunk of change, but the peace of mind is priceless! My tank now is ALWAYS 78-79, and my animals look SO happy.

[Doug1]

Hmmmmm the hard line appears again. Lets try to maintain civility and examine this logically. In most cases summer heat problems can be dealth with with increased fans and large top off reservoirs. Ihave micky mouse AC and its 100 out, house temp is 87 and tank is 81 with a 4" fan on the actinic light timer. So far it is a dry heat. Most of the time with the fan going my heaters still cycle on a lot. I have about 2 months out of the year that temp increase is a concern, In Fla or other southern states its obviously a more long term problem, however I think that a well designed and ventalated canopy esp if you have fans on a controller can usually maintain a safe temp range. If thats not the case then each individoul has to decide if investing in a chiller is a viable option for them.
I get the feeling that until the AC failed temp hadn't been a problem. Granted having a chiller as a backup would increase the margin of safety, its not practical for all of us.
I tend to preach on the side of conservatism in reef matters but I think chastizing people for offering temp solutions to temp problems is abit extreme. Obviously throwing in ice bags 24/7 days on end is no solution, but it has its place in emergencies.
On the other side of the coin what kind of sump pump creates that much heat, geeze I use a Sen 900 as a return and have 4 power heads besides, like I said with one 4" fan blowing across the open back canopy I am having no trouble keeping temps where I want them. In fact I am thinking of a Johnson or Ranco controller keyed by water temp to run the fans.

[derosier]

First the good news, the A/C was fixed yesterday, and all temps were back to normal by this morning. It appears that all of the critters are all right and happy now.

To respond to all of the advice... First off I didn't intend to start a small war over the issue of temp control. Sorry.

The A/C going out is an exceptional issue. For those who aren't aware, the temps here are ranging in the high 90s and low 100s with 60%+ humidity. Lows at night don't seem to get below 80. I live in a 2bed appartment on the top floor (read large roof exposure to sun). Frankly, it isn't very well insulated, but I don't have much control over that. I guess I could move (shudder!) to a place with beter insulation... When I got up at 7:30am or so yesterday morning, the temp in the appartment was
a good 15 degrees higher than it was when the A/C went out the night before, and a good 15 degrees higher than I like it and usually keep it at (about 70 or so).

My sump is not inside anything, it is sitting on the floor next to my tank. No room inside a standard fitted hex stand for such equipment. Mistake. Must learn for next time... I do have a small fan on the sump (not really big enough). I am using a Velocity T1 pump, which works great, is silent, but it seems to run hotter than average. Also part of my newer heat problem I suspect is caused by the water surface being so close to the lights (under an inch from the surface to the glass plate that the light fixture sits on); it wasn't like this before (probably 2-3 inches). Hence the reduced ventilation of the tank surface is probably causing some of the problem also. The pump sitting on the carpet next to the wall in the corrner formed by my tank and the wall probably doesn't help it rid itself of heat either.

Anyway, I would have done the ice in the sump thing if I had been home. As I said the A/C going out is an exception, so I don't think that me having to baby sit the tank that way would have been a problem. However, I had to go to work.

The chiller is a great idea, but it is yet another piece of expensive equipment to get. This new tank is only a about 4 months old and I am slowly getting there as far as equip goes, but one piece at a time. I would love a chiller, but I haven't seen it as necessary yet. As it is I am trying to figure out where to find $500-700 for the MH pendant I want to get together (48 watts of CF is just not enough for a 20 inch deep reef tank!!!) Anyway, there is so much to get and it is so expensive I've got to prioratize a little.

Besides, I'm not about to run to the LFS and drop $700 at this moment just because the A/C went out for one day. Either I would be nuts or I would have to be a poor manager of my funds to do that. Fans and ice seem like a much better way (for my particular situation) to handle a very temporary problem like this. However I do have to agree that if I had a continuing temp problem a chiller would be the best way to do things. I've always said that if I'm going to do something I might as well do it right with the correct tools. And when I get that MH running, it may be time to get that chiller. Just have to see what happens then.

When it comes to the A/C going out here, the appartment complex considers that an "emergency" and they fix it ASAP. I was just worried about what would happen to my tank durring the day while it was out. I got home last night and the A/C was running; though it haddn't cooled the place yet, it was working on it. I don't know how hot my tank got, but at that point it was only 86 or so. Probably made it as high as 88 I immagine. Ok, for short streches, but it really got me worried.

Anyway, all is fine now and I appricate the different oppionions.

Thanks,
- Steve

Drewman I am not a chiller salesman. I do not think I phrased anything personally, but if I did I apologize. The assumption was made that the A/C was needed( no area was giving so I determined that he may have somewhat elevated temp in the summertime), so I pondered his tempuratures as I know many reef fans live in warm climates. I took a better safe then sorry ( what is several hundred lost comared to several thousand)with the intention to make sure it was understood that IF outside temp( he needs A/C to keep tank temps down allready safe to assume a chiller is in his future, I am not a psychic though) was a problem a chiller is something you may look into. Like Doug said I also am somewhat modest on the equipment( to a degree I will not compromise essential items that are somewhat obvious) I purchase. I also have always set up reef tanks in a cooled basement enviorment( 2 55's a 125 and soon a bowfront 155). I do not need or will ever need a chiller with my present situation( basement has never broke the 70's even if the outside is 100+). Many people do not spend several hours a day monitering( I work close to 60 hours a week plus I am married so I guess that counts as a job too) there tanks. To give people advice that this is the norm is wrong( simplify the solution, but do not comprimise safety of the inhabitants). I enjoy viewing my tank not working on it and should be noted I take all steps to avoid doing anything unneccesary( usually spend an hour tops with the tank daily). I hope this bring to mind my debate with DOUG about VHO vs Halides hehehehehe. I did not want to make it a point to spend more money, but as you can see from the previous point his area hits 90-100 so a chiller is not a bad idea. Ice is only a quick fix( assuming he uses it in a correct manner bring the temp down quickly is not the idea, but rather bring them down slowly over a matter of a few hours will decrease the chance of stress or shock in some cases) not a solution to heat problems. I hope I cleared this up. I just know many reef guys love there tanks and want to make SURE nothing goes wrong. I was only giving advice to aid in his temp problem. I was not just trying to mask it with a low tech quick fix.

[Drew]

I think the thread has shown everyones points so I don't see any need to post further. No hard feelings

Drew

[Doug1]

Actually I think some valid points were raised re: quick fix and long term solutions
I would try the fan avenue first, also redoing the canopy and raising the lights and removing cover glass will help quite a bit, but like MM said in a hot climate like southren US a chiller may be cheap insurance against huge losses. Both of us are equally passionate about the hobby and call them as we see em. Its all about learning