Optimize DI/RO?

epidemic · 12-20-2005, 08:21 AM

I received my ro/di filter from Fahz yesterday and it looks really cool. I fired it up and after a little troubleshooting with the collettes (hose fittings) I got it working. I let it run for a while collecting both the filtered water and the waste water. In the end I had about two gallons of ro/di water and probably 8 or 9 or gallons of waste water. I was using only cold water through the filter.

My question (to everyone) is, is there a way to maximizes the filtered water to waste water ration? I know that the filters go through a good amount of waste water, but this is a little more than I had expected.

Thanks
Derek

spazz · 12-20-2005, 08:30 AM

you might want to ask vertical about his ro/di system. he installed a feed pump on his unit. it makes ro water alot faster. but it might make less waist water too. fahz might be able to answer that one too. i know he sells those pumps too.

Bathypelagic Zone · 12-20-2005, 09:18 AM

That sounds about right - 1 gallon of RO to 4 gallons of waste, in fact I believe that 1 to 4 is on the low side. I read somewhere that it can range anywhere from 4 to 10 gallons of waste, of course I don't know how valid that info is. I guess I will wait for the real scoop from the person with the knowlege on this fahz.

Graham · 12-20-2005, 10:17 AM

Warm it up to around 70-75 degrees. That will increase your output alot - for no extra charge. I always run mine with a mix of hot and cold water around 72 degrees. With outside temps like these, I'd guess that my output inreases at least 3x what it is with just cold water. FWIW, I don't notice my carts or resin expiring any faster using some hot water in there and TDS is the same as using all cold. Just be careful you don't fry your membrane with too hot water.

Fahz · 12-20-2005, 10:26 AM

Derek:

Sorry to hear you had a problem with the fitting hope you worked it out. Did you have a leaker or was it just getting the feel of a quick fitting? Sounds like your system is working right, nothing you can do about the waste water except wash cloths or water plants. You need that flow rate to produce ultra pure water if you try to restrict the waste water your quality goes down hill. Colder water at this time of year also produces a little more waste water. You can mix warm and cold water but it's a trick and you can fry your membrane very fast. Temps above 100 degrees will fry the membrane in a very short time.

Fahz

Fahz · 12-20-2005, 10:31 AM

Graham beat me to it if you try mixing water be careful temps on the low side rather them high are best. The other thing to consider is you have cost in heating the water.

Fahz

epidemic · 12-20-2005, 10:38 AM

I didn't really have any problems, just a few of the collets had to be pushed in a bit further all but one were ones I put in, and it was in a laundry tub so it wasn't a problem. I seem to be one of the few "guys" that read directions first, so it wasn't a big deal at all.

How can I test the temp of the water?

The sink I have it hooked up to has a valve for each hot and cold. I cannot hook it up while it is on, so the valve position is "reset" when I hook it up. and I cannot get the temp before it goes to the filter when it is hooked up. Can I measure the temp of the water coming out? Or should I just try to determine where the valves are when I reach the optimal temperature -

Fahz-what is the best temperature to run the filter at?
Derek

epidemic · 12-20-2005, 10:40 AM

My issue with the waste is not the water coast, but the fact they determine sewer coast by how much water you use and sewer is more than twice as expensive as water. Good thing my brother over 400 gallon of freshwater (piranha freek!!)
Derek

jules77 · 12-20-2005, 12:27 PM

you can measure temp off the waste water. Be careful mixing the hot water in since not everyones house is the same. My Hot water pressure is much higher than the cold so the hot dominates the cold and I have trouble keeping it balanced. Something to keep in mind...

Frogbone · 12-20-2005, 12:57 PM

depending on where you have your system hooked up you could get a Mixing Valve which woule keep your water temp to the RO/DI system at a constant preset temperature.

epidemic · 12-20-2005, 01:01 PM

I have never heard of a mixing valve...? How does it work?
Derek

Frogbone · 12-20-2005, 01:27 PM

Here is a definition i found on the net:

Mixing valves are designed to combine the flows of two or more inlets into a single outlet. They are extensively used in situations where specific concentrations must be combined and regulated.

The most common application for mixing valves is to combine, regulate and dispense hot and cold water received from two inlets. In most cases, a temperature sensitive element is employed, which expands or contracts depending upon the temperature coming into the valve. The element is geared to dispense water within a certain temperature range, so its expansion and contraction will vary from the cold side to the hot side to maintain the desired temperature balance. Once the water temperature is balanced, it can be dispense (as from a faucet) or it can be cycled back into a system (as in a boiler or a nuclear power plant) to provide cooling. Some styles of mixing valves are designed with anti-scald protection to make sure that water is never dispensed beyond a safe temperature. These are often used within hospitals, nursing homes, child-care facilities and other establishments where the user population requires additional protection.

Fahz · 12-20-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epidemic

I didn't really have any problems, just a few of the collets had to be pushed in a bit further all but one were ones I put in, and it was in a laundry tub so it wasn't a problem. I seem to be one of the few "guys" that read directions first, so it wasn't a big deal at all.

How can I test the temp of the water?

The sink I have it hooked up to has a valve for each hot and cold. I cannot hook it up while it is on, so the valve position is "reset" when I hook it up. and I cannot get the temp before it goes to the filter when it is hooked up. Can I measure the temp of the water coming out? Or should I just try to determine where the valves are when I reach the optimal temperature -

Fahz-what is the best temperature to run the filter at?
Derek

OK had me worried, we can't test our systems now for leaks before shipping because of the cold. We make a crude mixer valve which is just a saddle valve for the hot supply and a couple of fittings but a guy can get into trouble with it. The best operating temp is in the 70's with 77 being the best. Julies said it right everyones plumbing is different so it's really trial and error. As water runs it can get hotter or colder before you know it. My best advise is run it the way it is for a few weeks until you get the feel of it before making changes.

Fahz

epidemic · 12-20-2005, 02:01 PM

frogbone- very thourough, thanks.
Fazh, i will do that.
Derek

JS_racer · 12-20-2005, 06:52 PM

When your source water is very cold, RO units tend to slow down in production rate. They are designed to run with water that is closer to 78° F, which just happens to match our aquariums. Here's a neat trick that will get things back up to speed during the colder months:

Replace the tubing that leads from your cold water pipe to the unit with a 25' long piece. Coil as much of that tubing inside a 5 gallon bucket and fill the bucket up with water so the coils are submerged. Put an aquarium heater in the bucket and set it to 78° F. The heater will keep the bucket water at that temperature, and that water will warm up the water traveling through the tubing to your RO/DI unit. Production rates will jump back to normal.
Taken from melevsreef.com. Just bought the tubing tonight. I hope i need 90+ gallons soon