oops...

EdgeKrusher · 10-27-2003, 09:52 AM

This weekend I decided to make a Nurce type water top of system. it's aritight and kinda doesn't work so well, I think i need to make some adjustments to the air line, but that's not the big problem. Like a complete moron, happens rather frequently, I thought it'd work right off the get go so my dumb ***** put kalk in the top off water before checking to make sure the thing worked. Well it didn't and now my pH is 8.6 or higher, my test kit onlyreads up to 8.6. I did two 15% water changes but the kit is still reading 8.6. I have water waiting for when I get home. My question is how can I lower the pH. My fish don't seemed stressed, but it's still to early to tell.

Thanks

Edge

if no one laughs i'll be dissapointed.

mpls_gazer · 10-27-2003, 10:52 AM

That sucks duder. Funny I just checked my pH after a week of using my drip w/kalk and it's at a wonderful 8.2ish.

Sorry to hear about yer spike. Hope everything is oky doky when you get home.

MPLS_Gazer

EdgeKrusher · 10-27-2003, 11:09 AM

Everything seemed fine when I left this morning. But only time will tell. I tried the kalk drip thing but it didn't work well, maybe I was just too impatient to get it working right. I find myself rushing things recently, I don't know why...

Todd · 10-27-2003, 03:01 PM

I think Ben tried to lower his by using vinegar. He put in like half a cup and some RO water and it did the trick. You might read up on that and give it a shot.

EdgeKrusher · 10-27-2003, 03:10 PM

I have mixed feelings about adding anything to my tank. I'll do some reading but I think that'll be my last and final option if a couple more water changes don't do the trick.

Edge

capman · 10-28-2003, 01:11 AM

If you aren't seeing signs of stress, then maybe the situation is not actually dangerous. Dropping the pH rapidly might have disastrous results though. Be careful to not break what might not really be broken (or might not be badly broken).

That being said, white vinegar should not be harmful, as long as you don't cause a rapid pH change. I use vinegar in my limewater all the time to increase its effectiveness. The hydrogen ions from the vinegar will get together with excess hydroxide ions from the limewater (and they will form water), and the acetate ions from the vinegar (vinegar is made up of hydrogen ions and acetate ions) are basically just short carbon chains that can be used as an energy source by various bacteria in your system (which will convert them to carbon dioxide and water).

I'm not sure what vinegar additions done in this way will do to the balance of calcium ions and carbonate ions..it might deplete your alkalinity...you probably ought to check to see that things are still in balance if you do this.

Ben Nicholls · 10-28-2003, 03:33 PM

Yes, I used vinegar to quickly bring down ph from a kalk overdose. Worked great, and I did not see the alk get out of wack. At this point I probably would not use it if I were you since everything looks ok. Water changes should be able to bring it down slowly. I did not have much choice as I had one dead fish and 4 more that were not looking healthy. I needed to get it back to normal quickly. The vinegar had the ph back to normal within a few minutes and everything except the one fish survived.

EdgeKrusher · 10-28-2003, 03:40 PM

Everything is looking good. I'm checking the ph when i get home. i did a water change last night, and one this morning before work. I'll just take it slow. Thanks for the help.

Peace

Edge

EdgeKrusher · 10-29-2003, 08:04 AM

Sweet the pH was at 8.4 last night before lights out. My top off system works like a charm, after a modification. The fish are happy, the aiptasia are happy but don't know they are going to fry tonight. Thanks for all the help people.

Peace

Edge

capman · 10-30-2003, 02:35 AM

Can you tell us the details of your topoff system (in its current, modified, functional form)?

EdgeKrusher · 10-30-2003, 08:00 AM

Sure I don't have any pics yet but I'll throw some up when I get home. Basically I took a 2 quart rubbermaid drink container, one that comeswith and o-ring in the cap. I sealed up any and all areas that I though air might go through using silicone sealant. I cut the hose off the bottom where I had it for the drip system and filled the hole with silicone and a layer of krazy glue. Then I drilled a 1/4" hole through the cap and one in the top of the container. through the cap I pused a 1/4" airline tubing to about 1/4" from the bottom. This allows water to syphon out but not pull too much Kalk residue with it into the tank. Using this on the cap also allows me to take the cap off and water doesn't spray all over. The tank end of this tubing is about 2 inches under the water line of the tank.
The second hole in the rubbermaid container also has 1/4" tubing pushed about half an inch down. This tubing never touches the water inside the container. If it does then the vacum needed to keep the syphon will not work. I dismantled a spare Check Valve that I had laying around, and attached this to the tank end of the air tubing. the syphon wasn't working when the air tubing was just sitting in the water, but once I added the check valve the syphon starts right away. the syphon stops when the water level becomes equal to the level of the check valve. It's been running for two days. All you need to do to get the syphon started is to blow into the air tube. Hopefully I explaind this well.

Peace

Edge

otolith · 11-02-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capman
...stuff deleted....

That being said, white vinegar should not be harmful, as long as you don't cause a rapid pH change. I use vinegar in my limewater all the time to increase its effectiveness. The hydrogen ions from the vinegar will get together with excess hydroxide ions from the limewater (and they will form water), and the acetate ions from the vinegar (vinegar is made up of hydrogen ions and acetate ions) are basically just short carbon chains that can be used as an energy source by various bacteria in your system (which will convert them to carbon dioxide and water).

I'm not sure what vinegar additions done in this way will do to the balance of calcium ions and carbonate ions..it might deplete your alkalinity...you probably ought to check to see that things are still in balance if you do this.

I've heard of people adding small amounts of vingegar to limewater before. This brings up an interesting question. What would adding small amounts of vinegar (say 1 cup in 10-20g) to your top off water if it runs through a Kalk reactor do? Would it make more Ca become available?

Derek

David Grigor · 11-02-2003, 09:13 PM

Here is the article I found to be useful on the subject. It pretty easy to read....

Vinegar & Kalk Article

capman · 11-02-2003, 11:43 PM

Otolith,

I don't know, and have wondered about this myself. It seems like it should work, but I have not thought this through carefully.

By the way, Craig Bingman's original article where he first proposed this idea can be found here: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a...io/default.asp

EdgeKrusher · 11-02-2003, 11:56 PM

Here are a couple of pics of the doser, it works very well.

The tube on the left (tube A) is letting the air into the container wich equalizes the pressure inside and forces the water out of the hose coming out of the cover (tube B).

The blue thing attached to Tube A, is a modified check valve. I cut the very end off the check valve. When the water level comes up to the cut off end of the check valve the syphon stops. When the water level drops below the end of the check valve the water that was sucked up to stop the folow gets sucked into the conatiner, pressure equalizes, and the syphon starts. I've been running this for about a week and am very happy with the results. I haven't started dosing Kalk yet since It's still in testing phase, but this week the Kalk will be added and CA, ALK, and pH levels will be closely monitored.

Peace

Edge

oops...

Doh!