Keeping top of sand clean

WildPraire · 02-02-2004, 02:09 PM

My sand is not a lovely white expanse. Since I'm using Southdown I'm unsure how to siphon without pulling out the sand too. This isn't algea or diatom, just crud that needs to be vacuumed out.

I find if I suspend it enough to get it going out in the overflow, I also get a lot of sand circulating. I'm sure that some of you have came up with creative devices for suctioning the detritis out. I've been trying to come up with something using smaller rigid tubing connected to soft tubing to siphon, but I'm asuming there is something a bit better than this method. Gravel vacs are too big to negotiate in the tank, and with the 24 inch depth I need something long. Not to mention the taste of saltwater is something I can do without. Ideas?

Sue

JJG · 02-02-2004, 03:25 PM

In my opinion (and likly most everyone elses) the best way is the natural way.....critters. there are a variety of invertibrates that in the right mix and quantity will take care of the sand bed for you. Some inverts that I've used and had good luck with are: Mexican Turbo snails, nazzarious snails (my favorite) white sand sifter star fish, queen conch snails. There are other crabs and snails that work also that I'm sure others will volunteer. Good circulation in the tank and along the bottom will also help.
JJ

trodder · 02-02-2004, 03:45 PM

I'm going to have to agree with JJG. I have southdown in my tank as well that was a wreck for a long while until my critter supply increased enough as well as all the growing pains of the tank subsided. Now my sandbed is looking pretty good. I have about 10 blue legged hermits, 2 or 3 scarlet reef hermits, 3 zebra hermits, 1 emerald, 3 turbos, and a variety of smaller snails (about 20 to 30.), 1 brittle starfish, and last but not least 1 pin-cushion sea urchin. All of those are what keep my gravel clean.

David Grigor · 02-02-2004, 03:45 PM

As John mentions outside of critters your options are limited as you really can't siphon much.....

I have had some success using just regular 1/2" tubing and siphonin with the end of the tube parallel with the sandbed vs. Perpendicular. This seems to do reasonably well at sucking the detrious off the top with minimal amount of sand loss........However I do so very sparingly ( 1 or 2 a year ).

Graham · 02-02-2004, 11:14 PM

I find the traditional wide end siphon to small hose (1/2-3/4" ID) works best for me. I also have Southdown in my tank (although less than I used to

) and if I use the siphon proper, not much sand gets pulled out at all. It climbs up the siphon, but not up and over. The wider the "big part" (that goes in the tank), the less force is created in it and thus, the sand's own weight can often keep it swirling in the siphon but not get pulled out. Also, if you don't submerge the siphon into the sand, less is pulled up. Be careful when you stop the siphon though. If you just allow the sand to fall back down, you have a storm on your hands...

In order to remove sand (I'm doing this slowly and surely), I remove the big siphon part and only use tubing (1/2" or 3/4" ID). Sand comes right out.

If I were you, I'd get it out before it sinks into your bed - that's where it's going to end up...and build up.....and build up....and build up....and

Everything poops phosphate (even things that eat poop), then bacteria reduce it and after it's that reduced, nothing except algae and cyano eat it, but I digress.

IMO, the best thing you can do to your sandbed is vaccuum it.
IMO of course, and you know what they say opinions are like...

Crevalle · 02-02-2004, 11:36 PM

WildPraire--I have been experimenting with larger diameter cc substrate in my sps reef tank, and it used to become an off-white color as time passed due to build-up. I ended up getting a sand sifting starfish (my favorite), and the substrate was white within a week. They are absolute churning machines. Only one is recommended per six square feet of tank bottom. Very interesting to watch too. Cheap too.

Sam

WildPraire · 02-02-2004, 11:43 PM

I think I"m going to figure out a way to vaccuum it out and then get a sand sifting star. I'm assuming that these are reef safe and don't tumble the rock rooting around. It's fairly stable actually.

I've done some moving around of power heads a bit deeper down in the water column, and hooked up the wavemaker hoping that the random motion helps a bit with suspension.

Thanks for all the suggestions/advice, it really helps.

Sue

scuba · 02-03-2004, 12:32 AM

sand sifters.... I'm not as experienced as the rest of these guys, but I thought sifting critters ate the micro organizms that you wanted in the sand...

We have a 125 with sugar sand and We've added 3 queens and 3 fighting conchs for sand clean up...

the queens started out 1/2" long.. a year later the are about 3" and BIG. the fighters are still about 3/4" and perfect sized...

The queens have been doing a great job keeping the sand and lower rocks clean. when they were small they kept the rock clean too but now they are tooooo fat to get up...

IMO,,, fighting conchs and turbo snails for sand and glass. blue legged hermits for rocks....

Graham · 02-03-2004, 01:16 AM

scuba,

The sand-sifting stars probably mostly eat bacterial aggregates (detritus, basically). There are also carnivorous stars that you'd want to stay away from if you are raising critters. Most stars you see available are indeed meat-eaters.

Sue,
certain cucumbers also work well for what you want. They aren't carnivores, either. Look for "sand-sifting" cukes - tiger tails and also the ones that look like poo.

I think alot of this "detritus-eating" people see is nothing more than the small particles settling deeper into the sand. That's probably one of the main "functions" of sand-dwelling critters...Have you ever placed small particle sand on top of larger particle sand? What happens? No, the smaller sand is not being eaten

...

clyde · 02-03-2004, 09:07 AM

Sue, I am getting a shipment of a bunch of critters, I m just waiting till the weather is warm

I think my shipment will have 3 cukes, a bit too many for my tank.

I ll let you know.

WildPraire · 02-03-2004, 11:32 AM

Clyde,

Let me know when you are getting shipment I might want to go in with you if I have the cash. Who are you shipping from?

I made a firm commitment to myself to not have a cuke in the tank, they freak me out. Stars, conchs. spghetti worms etc, all cool with me, but no cuke.

Graham,
I think the sand clean up is somewhat like fresh in this way, you export it or it settles for the most part. I'm going to do some vacuuming somehow!

Thanks for the feedback,

Sue

clyde · 02-03-2004, 11:53 AM

sure I ll let you know

I will be getting it in abouyt a month I think, waiting till the weather is right, then will pay shipment over of 35 bucks

I will be getting hermits, cuke (2) and serpent stars (2) I only want one cuke 1 serpent, I plant o email em to see if I can have my hermit changed to scarlets

i ll see you tonight or later

WildPraire · 02-04-2004, 12:24 AM

Clyde,

What company? Maybe me and others will want to go in with you and split the shipping cost.

Sue

clyde · 02-04-2004, 12:38 AM

okay no problem

it was Keys Critters

copy/paste from the TRT auction

Keys Critters has provided this cleanup crew package. It includes 50 blue-leg hermit crabs, 2 sea cucumbers and 2 brittle stars.

won bid at 45.00 then 500 posts at .2 cents off, dropped it down to like 35 bucks then I just need to take care of shipping.

I can email him, and see if he will be willing to add more stuff, then we can split shipping.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/i/t/ituarteg/

this is their web page

gonna see if I can 50 hermits down to 3 scarlets

polskp · 02-04-2004, 01:36 AM

Two words:

Queen Conch!

Trust me, they are awesome... I had a massive diatom problem... added two, no more diatoms in two weeks.