kalk created equal?

kaba · 10-01-2003, 03:59 PM

Hey all -- I'm going to be switching from Kent's kalk to Seachem's. Is all kalk basically the same, or is there a possibility that one's more concentrated than the other?

Stoney Reef · 10-01-2003, 04:59 PM

no, all kalk is not created equal, different grades etc etc. I actually took the cheap way out and purchased some cheap kalk, this thing shredded impellars!!!!!!!! BACK TO ESV!!!! By far the finest ground and the lowest impurities I have found, and I go through a lot of kalk on three tanks!

Graham · 10-01-2003, 05:15 PM

It has a defined point of saturation. Calcium hydroxide is normally saturated at 2 tsp/gallon - unless you have a really poor quality sample (lots of impurities). Anything sold as CaOH (especially kalk) should be pure enough to give saturation (with the corresponding pH) at very near 2 tsp per gallon.

Any company claiming "better" kalk or "higher pH" or "more available calcium than other brands" is full of it. Any increase in purity is pretty negligible when your end product is a saturated solution.

Calcium Hydroxide at saturation is the same chemically no matter what brand or supplier. How much needed to saturate is variable, but not for our purposes. To be sure you have a saturated solution, start with 2 tsp/gallon and check for chalky sediment at the bottom of the container. This is likely undissolved kalk power which means it is saturated. Any impurities are not likely present in a large enough concentration to settle out of solution...unless your kalk is over a year old in which case you may have CaCO3, but that's more flaky. Kalk is chalky.

Personally, I have never noticed a difference between ESV, Seachem, or Kent. I am going to go the Ms. Wage's route next time. It's good stuff and it's the right price.

marm64 · 10-01-2003, 08:48 PM

I use Mrs Wagners from Walmart for $1.49 a pound and have not had any problems, I only drip it thought so do not know how it would do in a reactor. There are a lot of people that use either Balls or Mrs. Wagners pickling lime with no adverse reaction. I would trust the FDA over somebody just selling to the aquarium industry. If you really want good stuff buy lab grade or better.

Crevalle · 10-01-2003, 09:24 PM

I've been using the kalk brand that David Grigor handed out two meetings ago, and it works really well--Greg Sheilds told me the manufacturer, but I don't recall. It dissolves quite well. I also have ESV, but I'm not using it right now because I'm still going through the "free sample."

Todd · 10-02-2003, 07:35 AM

Most of my info comes from over 2 years ago but back then I recall the kalk mix that supposedly had very little impurities was Two Little Fishes. Something like that. I believe Peter Wilkens and Julian Sprung were partners in the company. Not sure if it's still around. I bought a large container back then and it seems to be doing the job.

Twins Guy · 10-02-2003, 09:36 AM

Two Lil Fishies be alive and kicking with new color graphics packaging!

The product Crevalle mentioned is produced by Warner Marine Research and its called Kalkwasser Plus. The Plus in this case indicates that the product is actually calcium oxide instead of calcium hydroxide. Basically the net result is the same when placed in aqueous solution (high pH solution relatively loaded with calcium). The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium by Nilssen and Fossa mentions calcium oxide, whose use is more widespread in europe. that could mean two things (IME) #1-that its a new, promising compound (for aquarium use) or #2-that its really old, tried and true. either way...i trust my brothers back in germany ( and i love david hasselhoff-sorry that maybe a lil too obscure a reference

) WMR uses analytical reagent (pronounced re*a*gent-awe where the hell do i find accent/letter soundy thingers!) and pharmaceutical grade chemicals so its prolly the cleanest stuff available. WMR makes a "regular" Kalkwasser as well.

HTH!
tg

SawCJack00 · 10-02-2003, 09:47 AM

I've used the Warner product, and like it very much, I also use the ESV and like that just as well. I used Mrs Wages for a long time in my Kalk reactor, but it always leaves a grayish residue , which I do not like, so I switched to ESV, and there is no residue. The WMR product does not leave a residue either.

I never had any problems that I was aware of with the Mrs Wages, i just didn't like the gray residue.

kaba · 10-02-2003, 10:00 AM

Thanks for the replies, everyone. On the Kent's container it says 100 grams will make up to 50 gallons of solution, yet on the Seachem's it says 500 grams makes 166 gallons. This is what got me wondering about different strengths/concentrations. But, if I understand correctly, even though there are different grades, 1 tsp. of quality calcium hydroxide will generally provide the same amount of calcium and have the same effect on pH regardless of which brand. Is this correct?

I already have the Seachem's, but maybe I'll give Mrs. Wages or the calcium oxide a try next time.

BTW, Rich, ya crack me up...

Twins Guy · 10-02-2003, 10:23 AM

it's basically a matter of how much Ca(OH)2 the companies want you to waste and therefore the recommended dosage. i think graham already outined this pretty well but only "so much" can be dissolved because of the relative insolubility of calcium hydroxide (and oxide). therefore adding more than that amount is wasteful and any excess will remain a precipitate. but maybe those dosage recommendations do provide some clues about product purity. think about it like this: if company A cuts reagent grade kalk with powdered sugar where company B doesn't then it will take a larger dose of A's product (than B's) to reach calcium hydroxide saturation. more info on that would be interesting but prolly hard to come by!
tg

k-glad i make somebody laugh! if you only knew how hard it is to be this funny!

Todd · 10-02-2003, 01:02 PM

We all should start discussing the use of powdered sugar with calcium hydroxide in the Think Tank and see what kind of response we get. : ) We could have some fun with people's minds. We'd just have to let the cat out of the bag before anyone actually tried it!

mnreefgeek · 10-02-2003, 01:40 PM

LOL Todd. I wonder how many folks we could get ot bite before the joke got out.

Graham · 10-02-2003, 05:11 PM

Crappy quality CaOH will take more to saturate because there is less actual CaOH present per tsp. Among Kent, Seachem, and ESV, 2 tsp/gallon (and a little pinch for good measure) has always saturated the solution for me. In fact, the ESV I have right now saturates at a little less than 2 tsp/gallon.

Bill,

I get greyish residue with the ESV that I have...

Probably just an insoluble impurity, because anything soluble would not likely be there in enough concentration to saturate (meaning, you wouldn't see the residue - scary). I don't know though...keep it on faith I guess.

Just don't get the grey stuff in dere.

otolith · 10-03-2003, 12:20 AM

Graham, next time you go to Walmart, will you pick me up some Mrs Wagners? I just can't go to Walmart, don't like the store. THink they have it at Target or KMart?
Derek

Graham · 10-03-2003, 12:24 AM

Maybe we can do an online order, because I've only been to Walmart twice and they kicked me out both times...

Said they didn't like my type.

Funny, I strike you as a WalMart shopper