Does Amquell interfere with effectiveness of CopperSafe?

[capman]

I know that most reef people probably do not use AmQuell all that much, but I'm hoping someone out there might have experience with this....

We are trying to treat some freshwater sunfish for parasitic leeches using CopperSafe. After 24 hours, the bigger more conspicuous leeches that we can obviously see are still hanging on the fish. Maybe this will just take more time, but I'm wondering whether the AmQuell we used when we filled up the treatment tank with tap water is interfering with/detoxifying the copper in some way? I'm pretty sure Novaqua would have this effect, but I had not thought that AmQuell was designed to detoxify metals.

Incidentally, these leeches recently survived a 1 minute 3% saltwater dip. The sunfish really did not like this experience though....lost equillibrium and practically stopped breathing, but came out of it and were back to normal in 5 minutes or so (with leeches still hanging on). Interestingly, the Labidichromis and the jewel cichlids that have been living with the sunfish (and so needed to be treated as well) seemed to be hardly fazed by the salt dip.

[otolith]

Bill, you may want to ask Randy Holmes-Farley on RC in the reef chemistry forum. Otherwise, someone by the name of BoomerMN on this board may be able to help you out.

Have you asked any of the MAS people?

[armagedon48]

im not sure about copper, but i had a leech on my snapping turtle which i had to remove myself. i have had aptisia survive through copper power in a 10 gallon quarentine tank along with pods. it makes me think the dose sugested on the bottle is to low.

[capman]

Originally Posted by otolith

Bill, you may want to ask Randy Holmes-Farley on RC in the reef chemistry forum. Otherwise, someone by the name of BoomerMN on this board may be able to help you out.

Have you asked any of the MAS people?

I'm sure someone in MAS would know. They don't have a nice forum like this though, so I thought I would ask here in case anyone knows (I'm sure there are some folks here who have used copper to treat fish, though the Amquel part is a longer shot). There are a few MAS people I will probably e-mail about this and see what they know.

Thanks.

[capman]

Originally Posted by armagedon48

im not sure about copper, but i had a leech on my snapping turtle which i had to remove myself. i have had aptisia survive through copper power in a 10 gallon quarentine tank along with pods. it makes me think the dose sugested on the bottle is to low.

Manual removal of the larger leeches off these sunfish is certainly a possibility (sort of stressful for non-anesthetized fish though), but the problem is that the smaller ones are pretty hard to spot.

If the copper does not work I think I will do a big water change or two and then try Clout or Fluke Tabs.

[JnS]

if it has aleo vera in it as a stress coat it might prevent the meds from working properly.

[Spanky]

Bill we use Coppersafe and ClorAm-X together all the time. ClorAm-X is John's other name for Amquel. It's the best way to get a few weeks out of Coppersafe and not have ammonia.
Copper or formalin is not the drug of choice for leeches. Use the Fluke Tabs.

[capman]

Originally Posted by Spanky

Bill we use Coppersafe and ClorAm-X together all the time. ClorAm-X is John's other name for Amquel. It's the best way to get a few weeks out of Coppersafe and not have ammonia.
Copper or formalin is not the drug of choice for leeches. Use the Fluke Tabs.

Thanks. My first thought was to use Fluke Tabs (or Clout). I found an article where people were investigating different treatment options for leeches like this, and the drug (actually an organophosphate pesticide) that seemed to work best is one of the components of Fluke Tabs (interestingly, the Clout instructions I found online specifically mention leeches, as I recall, but I don't think the Fluke Tabs instructions do).

Anyway, the LFS that was convenient to visit last weekend did not have Clout or Fluke tabs, but did have CopperSafe, and the CopperSafe instructions specifically mentioned leeches, so I thought I'd give it a try.

I'll give it till next weekend and then if the leeches are still there I'll do a massive water change and try Fluke Tabs.


Have you personally dealt with parasitic leeches on freshwater fish? Any insights would be much appreciated.

Incidentally, we have put rock salt in the tank they were in, raising the salinity to about 1.030. I'm hoping that will kill off any leeches in the tank. Do you think the salt will accomplish that?

Thanks

[capman]

You know what is funny about this...

These fish we are fussing over are fish that most people would have taken home to eat. But my daughter adores them, and they are really some of the coolest fish we have. They certainly are some of the most interactive (with us) fish that we have ever kept.

[Spanky]

I used to have a tank of natives when I was in school. Sunfish

Be careful with the organophosphates. Don't use it in a small room, turn off any air stones, you can use just airline but no fine bubbles, no skimmer, etc. They are quick to get in the air and you don't want to breathe it. The active ingredients in Fluke Tabs are the old Dylox.

Salt probably won't work, or at least not for a while.

Oh and I forgot, we use Fluke Tabs on saltwater fish all the time. It's the best thing for gill flukes, todes, etc.

[capman]

Originally Posted by Spanky

Be careful with the organophosphates.

OK, I'm being ignorant here....

Do these precautions (not in a small room, etc) have to be taken with fluke tabs?

Also, will fluke tabs contaminate a tank or sand such that it will be unuseable in the future for a reef tank?

Thanks for your replies.

[Spanky]

Fluke Tabs = Dylox = organophosphates

Nope, won't hurt a tank that you want to use later for a reef tank.