Wholesale order from Importer

[Shaheen]

Im going to be ordering from an importer out in LA in approx 2 weeks. If your looking for a special something you have not found yet or are looking to save $$$$, drop me a pm and ill quote you. Im gonna have a web page dedicated to this, but untill then this will have to do.

[Rover]

Why would you want to do that?

[Shaheen]

Cuz ive saved hundreds stocking my tanks and my friends tank. Keep in mind - this is fish and corals only.

[Rover]

What does fish and corals only have to do with anything?

[Shaheen]

I just confirmed....Rover is a retailer that doesnt want me to sell cheap. To Bad Rover......move on!

[Rover]

I've never hidden the fact that I'm a retailer. Just curious as to why it's okay to get "just fish and corals" direct from the wholesaler. This implies that other stuff is off limits. I have no problems with people trying to get good deals on livestock. But the after purchase care from a good retailer seems a small price to pay. Ordering from a wholesaler is not really any different than doing mail order from an etailer, buying with no history, buying without seeing, all sales final etc. I'm new around here, and just trying to understand the myriad opinions that various members may have. What is and what is not acceptable to get direct from a wholesaler? And in which cases are middlemen (the lfs) not desireable or valuable. And why is which importer you are choosing to order from such a secret?

[Shaheen]

Thanks for your comments. I am a strong believer that advanced aquarist have different demands and needs. They want rock bottom prices ( cuz they are already broke from many many experiences) and they want a wider selection than just tangs and percs offered at the LFS. With all due respect, an LFS cant have on hand the entire ocean's creatures. As for the small fee for the middleman. That small fee is upwards of a few hundred percent markup. The guarantee is about the same. I am a strong believer that the less stress my fish or coral have, the less chance that it will go belly up. When ordering from an importer directly you minimize the stress caused by being in different systems and handled by many people and then finally getting to thier final destination.

If it wasnt for the LFS, I could not have started reefkeeping. Thank God for them. However, now that I have outgrown them - i have different needs.

Thank you Kindly

[cyberchef]

Personally I don't have a problem with buying anything from a "wholesaler", "etailer" or "LFS". It just depends on who can best fit the needs I have at the time.

No one in my area deals in the corals I choose to keep. This means I have to make a 1-3 hour trip, one way (no not uphill both ways and through 3 feet of snow), to even possibly get what I'm looking for and there's no guarantee I will find it when I get there. Sometimes for me the only way to get an item is over the internet or over the phone and through the mail/shipper.

Yes I could ask a LFS here or in Atlanta to try and get me a "such & such" and then wait for them to get it. But if I don't like the looks of what they get, I'm not going to buy it, especially at most LFS prices (compared to online/wholesale). This is not fair to the LFS who went to the trouble to try and please me, nor is it fair to me to"have" to buy it because they went to that trouble and were not able to get exactly what I wanted.

I've have tried to order specific fish and corals before, only to wait weeks on end while they try to find it, with the end results being they couldn't get it (at least not at that time). I could have gone online and gotten it when I first asked and still ended up going online weeks later to get the item.

Personally I prefer to buy livestock from a LFS because there is no doubt that I am buying exactly what I'm seeing and for this I'm willing to pay the difference. But I also like to call "people" that I know and ask "hey I'm looking for some nice SPS corals (or pick your favorite coral here), what do you have and how much?". This allows me to find something new and different that the LFS may not want to get or may not have access to or may not choose to get because they don't feel they can sell it. Yes I take the chance by ordering sight unseen but I also pay a much lower cost making the risk a chance at a better "bang for the buck". I also would not call someone I didn't know or that hadn't been personally recommended by someone I really trust. I have a few corals that you don't normally see in most systems. Some of them were "good" deals while some were "wow the LFS has gotten a really nice ****** I'll take it".

Unfortunately for some of us, the LFS is a business that is meant to make money, not cater to our every whim. This means that they are definately going to buy what they know they can sell, which may not neccessarily be what I personally want.

If I'm in Atlanta for any reason at all, I try to make the rounds to the different LFS to see what is available and to see if there is anything I'm interested in. How much time I have and the day of the week, determines where I go first and to which LFS I choose to visit. If I'm looking for SPS corals then my first choices are going to be the LFS where I think I will have a chance at finding something that I will like/want. This may not be the same choices I would make if I were looking for specific drygoods or for specific hardware.

I happen to like PC lighting for my actinic, specifically CSL Ultra Actinic, lights and locally they are just too expensive (prices have doubled in the past year) plus they don't stock them (which means I can't pay the higher price for the convienence if I need a bulb NOW). Why should I wait 3-7 days for a bulb, at a higher price, when I can go online and have the bulb in 3-4 days at a lower price (about 1/2 the price of local, before shipping or tax). Funny part is I've talked to CSL and they claim they have not raised the price of thier bulbs in in the past 2-3 years. I also understand that a LFS has overhead and unseen costs, that a etailer might not, that they have to deal with one way or another.

Bottom line is price versus convienence versus selection versus needs/wants at any given time.

[Rover]

Thanks for your comments. I am a strong believer that advanced aquarist have different demands and needs. They want rock bottom prices ( cuz they are already broke from many many experiences) and they want a wider selection than just tangs and percs offered at the LFS. With all due respect, an LFS cant have on hand the entire ocean's creatures. As for the small fee for the middleman. That small fee is upwards of a few hundred percent markup. The guarantee is about the same

So based on that statement, are LFS's just wasting their time by trying to bring in fish other than tangs and percs, since those who want different stuff have outgrown them anyway? Remember, I order from the wholesalers every week (sometimes twice ), so I am also aware that the wholesalers don't have an oceans worth of creatures in stock either. (I've been trying to get a leopard wrasse for a customer for three months ). And the idea that the middle man is making a profit hand over fist on their fish is ill-concieved. And as far as I know the wholesalers don't offer an guarantee.

I am a strong believer that the less stress my fish or coral have, the less chance that it will go belly up. When ordering from an importer directly you minimize the stress caused by being in different systems and handled by many people and then finally getting to thier final destination.

That is an interesting point. And it makes sense too. But wouldn't you rather buy a fish from someone who has already acclimated the fish to tank life, cleared up the parasites and wounds from collection, and trained it to eat flake food and pellets? Remember, I'm a store, and I order from the wholesalers every week (sometimes twice ), so I am very familiar with the quality of health the fish are in straight from the wholesaler. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not so good. In either case a little bit of time in a good retailers tanks clears up the minor stuff, and weeds out the bad stuff (at the LFS's expense too). Just seems to me that the peace of mind and convenience is worth a few extra bucks. If I sell a fish to a regular customers that croaks, and all water tests out okay, I'll usually replace the fish for them and take the loss, in order to maintain a good realtionship with my customer. Don't see that happening from a wholesaler.

I guess my bottom line curiosity is, "is it worth the retailers time to cater to the hobbyist, if the hobbyist feel they have outgrown them?" I sense a lot of the "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitudes from people who get upset when a retailer doesn't have exactly what they want. Most retailers are in it to build their customer base (that what pays the rent), so when I hear potential customers frustrated about the way things are, I'm interested in finding out what I can do to make them happy. (Happy customers = happy shop owners )


Sorry if this has come across as long winded or nit-picky. I run a shop for a liveing and could talk about it all day. Just ignore me if I ramble too much, and if I get on your nerves just give me a good slap. Sometimes I don't know when to shut up.

I just wonder sometimes when I crossed the line from hardcore hobbyist to sviveling shop owner.

[Mafiaman]

I have stated in the past how much I like rover's shop and rover is very helpful.

But if I was a shop owner I would not be bothered by consumers looking to get more bang for the buck.
I would be looking at my suppliers, and venders who make the product available direct and who price things in a way the prevents you from being competitive.

In the Harley parts industry if you dont have so many sq. feet a sign and listed in the yellow pages they wont whole sale to you.

LFS should hold their venders to the same.

[Rover]

I do. Hence my inquiry. FWIW there are several wholesalers I refuse to order from because of their policies regarding mail order. Quality Marine (MAC certified or not) is the drop shipper for Drs. Foster and Smith, so I refuse to order from them, even though I got some good stuff from them up until I made that little discovery. If you think those fish are actually handled and inpsected by a smug looking guy in a vet's costume, you need to think again.

[cyberchef]

Originally posted by Mafiaman

But if I was a shop owner I would not be bothered by consumers looking to get more bang for the buck.
I would be looking at my suppliers, and

A few things I would like to clarify. I'm not looking to "get more bang for the buck" but by buying sight unseen I take the chance at that happening, I also take the chance of getting something I'm not completely happy with.

I also stated that I prefer to buy my livestock from a LFS beacuse I get to see the actual specimen I am purchaseing. I also expect a LFS to run thier business as a business (this makes for a much better LFS overall that will have a longer life span so I can frequent it in the futrure as well as in the present), which means that they can't cater to each individuals whims (were not talking "needs" here) because that person happens to like the unusual, especially if that person is not willing to guarantee they will buy whatever comes in. If I'm going to buy something sight unseen then I'm not willing to pay full retail for it.

I don't mind paying a few dollars more for something I want/need (primarily hardware), but if that item is high dollar and I can get it else where for a savings of 50% or more, chances are I will. But this also means that the money I saved on a piece of hardware I can take to my favorite LFS's and see what they have in the way of livestock so I can purchase some eye candy.

[cyberchef]

Originally posted by Rover

If you think those fish are actually handled and inpsected by a smug looking guy in a vet's costume, you need to think again.

I think that you'll find that the majority of people that are looking at buying corals "wholesale", "e-tail", or from another individual through the mail/over the phone are not nieve enough to think that "those fish are actually handled and inpsected by a smug looking guy in a vet's costume"...

I don't know where your shop is or even what the name of it is but I hope one of these days to be able to make it there.

PM me, I really would like to know and hopefully be able to visit it one of these days. I'll ask that it not be posted in this thread for the sake of keeping the thread non-commercial.

PS: I won't hesitate to say whether I feel your living up to your typed words/claims either in a positive note or negetive...

[Mafiaman]

My comments were not directed or meant to rebut any other posts but were merely my opinion. Nor was I trying to insinuate any others preferences

I apologize if it appeared otherwise.

[Ray1214]

I guess I understand what don is saying.

Basically echoing my own settlements. Personally here is my philoshphy.

I like to buy my live stock from local sellers and local fish stores. I personally am really bad about wanting to see a fish eat and general health before i make a purchase. I figure the prices online and in magazines isn't much cheaper than most fish stores (oh i imagine there are exceptions) if you include the shipping. Plus I think that most stores will allow you to purchase or give a down payment on a fish and allow them and yourself to observe them for a bit. (I do that on some of my major fish or coral purchase, I prefer to never buy "Off the boat". )
Food Items, chemicals, supplements I almost always buy at Local Fish STores. Sometimes I feel that it helps keep the businesses I like to shop in business and most of the time foods and stuff that I supplement my fish mush with (I like to buy one package of frozen foods every month to supplement reef mush and switch it up a bit) are a must need type of thing. Same as heavy items like sand, rock and salt. Not worth the shipping for the most part. I guess I buy my light bulbs from lfs but not nessecarily the ballasts. Too big of savings in that venue but for the most part I try and support my local stores.

RAy