What do you look for in a LFS?

DGSTRACK · 03-18-2005, 11:54 AM

Ok, I'm asking the question because I'm opening one (in NC) and I want honest opinions on what to do right.

I've been in the hobby for 22 years, and I know a good store when I see one. I've got my own list: Clean store and tanks, good consistent selection and knowledgeable (sp) staff are obvious issues, although I will sometimes overlook the latter if the first two are good.

But what would make you drive out of your way to see a store, instead of going to the one down the street? What other services do you look for and what about policies... Stock returns, fish quarantees, etc.

I'm just curious for my own use, but I figure this will help other stores that see this.

Also, how does the Internet play with your purchases. I made some assumptions about what people who are Internet savvy will buy on the Internet, and set up the store accordingly, but can you give me any insight into why you may buy one thing from the LFS over the Internet?

Any info would be great!

Thanks,

Dave

dme330i · 03-18-2005, 01:22 PM

1. Stock
2. Customer Service Skills (which seems to be lacking at many stores)
3. Reasonable Prices

I buy stuff from the LFS over the internet because of the ability to inspect the specimen AND my relationship with the owner/operator.

gamerunr · 03-18-2005, 01:31 PM

Health of the livestock is my primary focus!

ljuhl · 03-18-2005, 01:40 PM

Healthy livestock is number one for me. On the internet purchase question, I used to purchase a lot of fishes and corals on the internet couple years ago when the internet's price was about 1/2 or less compared to the lfs price. Now, the price difference is not as much so I usually buy fishes and corals from the lfs for the following reasons:
1 - I know exactly what I am buying
2 - I could see if the fishes/corals are healthy
3 - I don't overload my bio-load by putting in 6-7 fishes/corals in my tank at a time.
4 - More fun to drive around and pick out things that caugh my eyes.
However, my number 1 buying source has to be from the fellow reefers. The price is great, the fishes/corals are healthy, and the stuffs are usually the best of of the best since he/she spent months/years to collecting them.

Ray1214 · 03-18-2005, 02:14 PM

One of the things I look for is if they are responsible. Ie the healthy livestock but more importantly, not just making a sale, like selling 200 dollars of livestock with a new tank.

Ray

Schwaggs · 03-18-2005, 02:32 PM

#1 Is livestock. Health-quality, selection, price, in that order. I dislike mail-order livestock because you have little control over the first and second item.

#2 Is good prices on the actual aquariums, these are too hard to mail order.

#3 Is a reasonable selection of frozen foods, again, too hard to mail order.

#4 is stock only those dry goods that you can sell within 20% of internet prices on the low dollar stuff and at the same or within 10% on the high dollar suff. You may get a couple people to pay $600 for a MH pendant light but when they find out they could have purchased it for $300 mail order, your relationship will suffer. Also, all the mail order savy cusomers will question your other prices when they see what you are trying to sell that "$300" pendant light for.

Jessezm · 03-18-2005, 03:01 PM

I have stopped making trips to many LFSs close to me because I've been insulted by the prices. A Mag 2 for $68??? What the hell??? I don't like the thought--even if I go to the internet for my drygoods--of my LFS ripping off other hobbyists or newbies. A better way to stay in business is to lower your margins and gain loyal customers instead of hiking up prices and driving off those who are saavy enough to turn their computer on...

(I won't mention what stores I'm talking about...I wouldn't want to offend ANY of our sponsors!)

jlscrug · 03-18-2005, 03:02 PM

I agree with all of the above. There are 3 stores within a 30-45 minute drive for me. 'A' and 'B' are sponsors of our Atlanta Reef Club 'C' is not. 'A' and 'B' allow customers to trade/sell frags back to the store for credit, 'C' does not. These two reasons alone keep me out of store 'C' who actually has a little better selection than the others. 'A', 'B', and 'C' are quite pricey on dry goods as compared to internet, even after you consider shipping. None of the 3 stores do this but I think it would be a great service to the customer as well as the animals they purchase: 1) Identify lighting and flow requirements for the animals they sell and if you have to, write this information down on a card for potential purchasers. (I actually got this answer from the owner of store 'C' when asking about the care of yellow finger gorgonians they had for sale, "High light and low flow" --this of course being a non-photosynthetic animal who depends on current to bring its food :0 ) 2) Be able to correctly identify and list your animals by their scientific names or at least Genus so that potential customers can research the animal for themselves. I have seen Nepthia listed as "Carnations" and Dendronepthia listed as "Finger leather" If a customer buys these animals, gets home and researches the care of these, they will both die and the customer may have done everything in accordance with the care they researched, but with improper labeling at the store, their animal dies anyway.

my .02$

ljuhl · 03-18-2005, 03:20 PM

Well, in the LFS defense, they have to pay rent, employee wages, electric bill, tax .... So if the price is reasonable high, I'll still like to purchase things from the LFS. I kind of feel bad to stop by a lfs every week, browsing and walk out without buying anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessezm

I have stopped making trips to many LFSs close to me because I've been insulted by the prices. A Mag 2 for $68??? What the hell??? I don't like the thought--even if I go to the internet for my drygoods--of my LFS ripping off other hobbyists or newbies. A better way to stay in business is to lower your margins and gain loyal customers instead of hiking up prices and driving off those who are saavy enough to turn their computer on...

(I won't mention what stores I'm talking about...I wouldn't want to offend ANY of our sponsors!)

FishMonger04 · 03-18-2005, 03:58 PM

I would have to say, being new to the hobby, that I look at two things in a LFS primarily: the first is the quality of the livestock and the second is basic customer service. I have been to a number of LFS in the Atlanta area and in 2 of the 4 I visited, there were dead fish in overstocked tanks. Not a good way to entice me to return, esp. for livestock purchases, which to me is a primary reason for visiting the LFS. Given the amount of money livestock costs, I would be leery of buying over the internet. Person-to-person commitment is important. I like to physically see what I am buying and also to be able to ask questions about the livestock right then and there.

Customer service is VERY important to me as well as a feeling that my questions (stupid as they might be sometimes) will be answered in a professional and knowledgable manner. I know an awful lot about race horse training, but things get sketchy when talking about water treatment and LR selection. Personally, I need to be able to trust my LFS to provide me with solid and practical help.

Recommending expensive ill-performing equipment and/or giving me fly-by-night advice is a good way to get me to never come back. I have done ALOT of research about marine setups in an effort to not be taken advantage of. The LFS has to be able to step back and see the bigger picture, not just the immediate sale. We're not buying used cars here, these are living organisms. Don't sell me a $200 Bamboo shark when you know I only have a 100 gallon tank -- even if it's small, cute, and I really really want one. That's not fair to the fish or to me, you know?

This is an expensive hobby that requires a great deal of time and responsibility to see to completion. I am not above buying drygoods from LFS even if they are a little bit more expensive. Local businesses are important, as is the notion of human interface. I am all about supporting small business and the community aspects of those businesses. Trust is the most important aspect for me. If I trust you, I will be back. Again and again and again, even if the guy up the road has got a better deal.

Well that's my 2 cents on it

Ms. K · 03-18-2005, 04:03 PM

I have to drive forever anyway, but I go almost exclusively to one store, though there are four in the city. First, but in no particular order, the store focuses exclusively on aquatic life and it is privately owned, not a chain. Second, the employees are all either pursuing college degrees in a science field or have already graduated and each has his/her own aquariums at home. Thus, they are extremely knowledgable. Third, they really pay attention and listen to me. They get to know me, learn my name, show interest in the setups that I have, and always spend time casually talking with me everytime I enter the store. They've even offered to call me and let me know exactly when a shipment is coming in the door. Fourth, I feel that they are honest. They ask about my set up. Then they help me decide what would be best for me. Whether it's a question about livestock, food, or equipment, they listen and make recommendations, but they never pressure me in any way. Fifth, the livestock is all very healthy, and the tanks are beautifully maintained. Last, they have very reasonable prices and have even gone so far as to show me what they pay for their stock and how much they increase the price. Having said all of that, I will add that I am relatively new, having bought my first piece of liverock around August. If it wasn't for the trust that I have in this particular store, I don't think I would be as involved as I am in this hobby.

wildemon · 03-18-2005, 04:54 PM

Dave, if you are the knowledgable one, then you need to be back with the livestock and let the hired help run the checkout. Likewise if your staff knows more than you about tanks, stay out of their sales area. Stay away from inexpensive but poor performance merchandise. If you are in a college town, then stock frags, but in an affluent suburb pick showpieces. Try not to let the vendors dictate what you "really need". Start education classes in the evening.
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/index...d=13&Itemid=28

This is a club event we had where a store owner spoke. Atlanta has had a history of stores achieving success and then selling ownership. Best of luck with your adventure!

JT · 03-18-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessezm

I have stopped making trips to many LFSs close to me because I've been insulted by the prices. A Mag 2 for $68??? What the hell???

As one who has worked in many areas of the industry for a number of years, this is pretty easy to answer. You can't blame the LFS for this. Your typical LFS cannot buy directly from the manufacturer on many of the products because of extremely high minimum order requirements. LFS's buy the bulk of their drygoods from big distributors such as Central or Royal. These distributors buy from the manufacturer or from a manufacturers representative. The wholesale prices on items from these outfits are often times the same price as internet retail because the big internet boys are able to buy from the same people supplying the distributors your LFS is buying from.

Don't blame your LFS or worse, acuse them of ripping customers off when you don't know all the facts, it's beyond their control the majority of the time.

- JT

Jessezm · 03-18-2005, 07:58 PM

Oh, I thouroughly understand the needs of a retail outlet to cover much, much higher overhead and operating costs. I was just referring to the stores that arbitrarily jack up prices because of an uneducated consumer market that will bear the brunt. I believe there is a happy medium, and that is where a shop should hover with its prices.

I, too, believe in supporting our local retailers. We do a great job of it through our club, I think.

Schwaggs · 03-18-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT

Don't blame your LFS or worse, acuse them of ripping customers off when you don't know all the facts, it's beyond their control the majority of the time.

The point is, stick to items where you can be competitive or differentiate and add value compared to the competition (internet retailers in this case). Ma and Pa hardware stores don’t stay in business down the road from Home Depot selling nails for twice the price. They make it by differentiating and adding value. They carry the specialty items (maybe rare or difficult to find livestock), hard to manage items (the internet retailers can’t ship tanks and stands, sand, etc), perishable items (frozen and live foods) and offer advice on how to solve problems with the hardware they do sell. If you can’t add value to a $30 pump, don’t waste space and capital stocking it. On the other hand, if you can de-mystify a tool or additive for a customer, maybe you can sell it to them but your additional cost better be justified by the added value or the customer will feel ripped off when they find out how much they could have paid for the item.