LFS, What would you like to see from them?

[Stevhan]

What would you like to see from our LFS? Im wondering if people would like to see more frags, more color, rarer specimens, dry goods or fish. Just wondering what the local response would be on here.
Thankyou.

[twd4]

Less markup and more high end equipment like top of the line pumps, skimmers, and lighting. I mean i think its pretty sad that if you need a replacement pump or maybe some replacement MH bulbs you are not gonna find it at any LFS. Oh and try to get a high end skimmer from one of the LFS around the city, you will be lucky to find a berlin turbo or a prizm hang on lolol

[oscar51]

ditto

[Stevhan]

Originally Posted by twd4

Less markup and more high end equipment like top of the line pumps, skimmers, and lighting. I mean i think its pretty sad that if you need a replacement pump or maybe some replacement MH bulbs you are not gonna find it at any LFS. Oh and try to get a high end skimmer from one of the LFS around the city, you will be lucky to find a berlin turbo or a prizm hang on lolol

I used to work at fish store and more and they usually always have those but.....you'll have to sell your first born for a good light fixture and a turbofloater. Now Im working a little further from home but I like the new store but better prices and reef club members get 30% off live and 20% of dry goods. I will seriously take all things into consideration on this board, nothing wrong with good ole constructive critisism. Just tell me what you want and I'll try to make it more available. Just gimme a little time

[twd4]

Where do you work? I was being sarcastic about the turbofloater lol. By high end skimmers i mean asm, euro reef, mrc , aqua-c. seems to me like most of the stores want to only keep mag drive pumps and PC fixtures. i have never seen any metal halide ballasts, bulbs, or fixtures in any metro Atlanta fish store

[akula]

pods- I think it would be super if one could buy a portion of pods just like we buy brine shrimp. It could be used to jump start sumps/fuges, feed the tank directly.

brine shrimp- not sure why, other than the delivery system, but it seems that most stores run out of brine shrimp sortly after their weekly delivery. other times the water is so fowl that a portion contains too many dead/body parts floating around.

prices- although I buy livestock at the local LFS, I dont think we will ever see competitive pricing on hardware due to the vast internet sales sites or mail order. I try to spend money in the LFS but since prior to visiting the store I have already surfed the web and have an idea of the price range.

used goods sold as new- I also have worked in an LFS (not in this state) and have witnesed used stuff sold as new (with bloated prices) An LFS in this area sold me used line loc parts at the normal new price. not cool.

prices (part 2)- it is sad to see the 59.99 mushroom or xenia frag rock. we know some of these things are being traded in for store credit and then jacked through the roof pricewise. I understand steep prices on premium stuff, but not the common variety items. to this I salute the CBA bargin bins. I will gladly buy a 9 dollar single polyp and watch it multiply to cover my own rock.

staff behavior- There are a few stores in which it seems if your are not an "A" list shopper, you are ignored. Literally have to corner a staff person to ask a question.

store credit trap- an LFS sold me the wrong replacement part, I realized it shortly after getting home and comparing the old and new part. I return to the store to return the part. store is convinced it is not different but none the less promises to find out in a few days what the situation is through the rep. Thing is I have already obtained the info on line and by direct side by side comparison. fine they will take the part back but I have to take it as store credit. At this point I am not interested in carrying around a store credit that may take months for me to spend. An honest mistake was made and it cost me some extra gas and time to make the return visit. curtesy would be to honor the buyers request for a full refund, not store credit. store finally gives back my money and asks me not to shop there anymore. fine. later through another club member I find out they asked the club member about knowing me, the guy who didnt want a store credit. come on now. rehashing our disagreement with other club members?

I have to admit that the majority of my purchases have been via forum classified ads and mail order but I brouse some stores to attempt to support the sponsor LFS but in the long run it is the lack of bang for the buck that limits my spending. selection for what I look at is ussually fine.

[Stevhan]

I work up at Marine Fish now and like the feel of it a lot better than Fish Store & More. More Homelike atmosphere. Needs a little touching around the edges though...hence finally making some posts about it here. The pricing you find on those on the net is what the stores would pay for them. They cant hardly match the prices so they opt not to carry them since they take up too much space on the shelves and most people would just buy them online. Certain companies with a larger variety of products also make the ordering process much easier rather than communicating with one rep for one product and a different rep for another.
This store and the old store both had halide fixtures in stock...at fish store they had a better selection but I cant even afford a 2x250 watt fixture from A-medic for $1423. They also usually have Blue Line, Iwaki and dolphin pumps still pricey though. The new store only has the coralife 150 watts but reasonably priced I must say....not intense enough for most of us though.

[Stevhan]

Originally Posted by akula

pods- I think it would be super if one could buy a portion of pods just like we buy brine shrimp. It could be used to jump start sumps/fuges, feed the tank directly.

brine shrimp- not sure why, other than the delivery system, but it seems that most stores run out of brine shrimp sortly after their weekly delivery. other times the water is so fowl that a portion contains too many dead/body parts floating around.

prices- although I buy livestock at the local LFS, I dont think we will ever see competitive pricing on hardware due to the vast internet sales sites or mail order. I try to spend money in the LFS but since prior to visiting the store I have already surfed the web and have an idea of the price range.

used goods sold as new- I also have worked in an LFS (not in this state) and have witnesed used stuff sold as new (with bloated prices) An LFS in this area sold me used line loc parts at the normal new price. not cool.

prices (part 2)- it is sad to see the 59.99 mushroom or xenia frag rock. we know some of these things are being traded in for store credit and then jacked through the roof pricewise. I understand steep prices on premium stuff, but not the common variety items. to this I salute the CBA bargin bins. I will gladly buy a 9 dollar single polyp and watch it multiply to cover my own rock.

staff behavior- There are a few stores in which it seems if your are not an "A" list shopper, you are ignored. Literally have to corner a staff person to ask a question.

store credit trap- an LFS sold me the wrong replacement part, I realized it shortly after getting home and comparing the old and new part. I return to the store to return the part. store is convinced it is not different but none the less promises to find out in a few days what the situation is through the rep. Thing is I have already obtained the info on line and by direct side by side comparison. fine they will take the part back but I have to take it as store credit. At this point I am not interested in carrying around a store credit that may take months for me to spend. An honest mistake was made and it cost me some extra gas and time to make the return visit. curtesy would be to honor the buyers request for a full refund, not store credit. store finally gives back my money and asks me not to shop there anymore. fine. later through another club member I find out they asked the club member about knowing me, the guy who didnt want a store credit. come on now. rehashing our disagreement with other club members?

I have to admit that the majority of my purchases have been via forum classified ads and mail order but I brouse some stores to attempt to support the sponsor LFS but in the long run it is the lack of bang for the buck that limits my spending. selection for what I look at is ussually fine.

The pods is a good idea...I could easily farm some with just a brine net placed in our refugium....excellent idea!
Brine shrimp orders are sometimes good and sometimes....well sludge....
Prices- yeah youve nailed that one right!
Used goods-Ive seen some places try to do that. Luckily most owners just let me store use it all or discount it or send it back to the vendor. The lockline would have made me a little mad too.
Im trying to get more frags in at the new store but there is a lot of people that want those larger pieces to fill in their tank...I actually have spent several days with a hammer and flat head screwdriver > Unfortunatly I cant make all the prices.
Working at stores many of the older employees usually ignore customers or often pass them off to other coworkers without attempting to help.
Yeah I hate the store credit trap too....not my thing. I work at stores but I also shop them too. Whoever has what I want at the time at a good price gets my money.

[jlscrug]

When I was a slave...I mean a manager a Wal-Mart I learned alot about retail. The average computer you see in there has a negative 5-10% margin. (they may actually lose $50-$100 on a $1000 computer) Health and beauty aids usually carry around a 4-7% margin. Things like disposable infant bottle liners carried somewhere around a 54% margin. My point is that even though you may be making nothing or even losing a 5 bucks on a $1000 light fixture you have a customer that would have went elsewhere. This customer may also pick up a $30 test kit, a can of $10 fish food, and $20 bottle of buffer since they feel like they got just as good a deal on the light as they would if they went on line and bought it. If you have a mere 20% margin on your test kit, fish food, and buffer you made $12 to off set the $5 you lost on the light. Although a 7$ profit does not seem worth your while you now have earned a customer and paid an hours wage to the teenager dipping fish and cleaning glass. My point being that even though you won't buy a plane ticket to the Keys on the light sale you made money on someone who would have otherwise logged on, pointed, and clicked then went out and played golf instead of coming to your store. Make your profits by selling ALOT of well priced 'consumables'. Think about this how often does the average customer buy a $1000 light? How many times per year does that same customer come in for salt, food, light bulbs, cleaning gadgets, etc. You will earn more customers that will visit more often instead of worrying about their spouse asking them if they felt anything hit them in the back while they were walking out of the LFS (like their change).


My .02

[georgiajams]

Think about this how often does the average customer buy a $1000 light? How many times per year does that same customer come in for salt, food, light bulbs, cleaning gadgets, etc.

Brilliant. So true. Here's another effect of this... let's say I need a bottle of buffer or whatever. It isn't worth paying the shipping, doing the wait, etc. to buy that online. Rather, I'll pay a few bucks extra to buy it instantly at the LFS, and I get to use it as an excuse to go see what interesting livestock the store has as well (I buy all livestock local). But, if I ever have a more expensive puchase that I buy online, I will typically also bundle in a bunch of other stuff I would have bought locally.

For instance, I just bought a doser and a ph meter online since, even if I could find this stuff locally, I'd save alot by purchasing online. But, when I did that, I also ordered some supplements and algae clips, etc. This latter stuff I would have bought locally if I didn't have a reason to make an online order.

[georgiajams]

One of the biggest things that drives me crazy is not knowing the price of stuff in the tanks and having to ask "how much is that" for everything. Maybe separate livestock by price rather than species.

[georgiajams]

I'm on a roll here. If I had a store, I'd take the lead from Home Depot and offer a class or two every Saturday on [select a topic]

. This void is where I think the reef club really helps out alot though...

For instance you could pick a topic from lighting, filtration, setting up a tank, livestock selection, basic plumbing, etc. Use products from the store to demo so everyone comes back to use those products.

You have to remember that the hobby can be intimidating for alot of beginners. They don't even know *what* to ask, let alone actually asking it. The LFS and the club should be promoting activities like this to keep people from getting frustrated, and ultimately, in the hobby longer.

[Ms. K]

I like how Athens Aquarium has little tags on their aquariums that show the price, name, temperament and **duh, duh, duhhhhhhh** a photo of each organism in the tank. It really helped me learn to identify fish and I constantly see people come in who are obviously new to saltwater fish. It makes it easier for them to browse if an employee is busy helping another customer.

[Rover]

Originally Posted by jlscrug

When I was a slave...I mean a manager a Wal-Mart I learned alot about retail. The average computer you see in there has a negative 5-10% margin. (they may actually lose $50-$100 on a $1000 computer) Health and beauty aids usually carry around a 4-7% margin. Things like disposable infant bottle liners carried somewhere around a 54% margin. My point is that even though you may be making nothing or even losing a 5 bucks on a $1000 light fixture you have a customer that would have went elsewhere. This customer may also pick up a $30 test kit, a can of $10 fish food, and $20 bottle of buffer since they feel like they got just as good a deal on the light as they would if they went on line and bought it. If you have a mere 20% margin on your test kit, fish food, and buffer you made $12 to off set the $5 you lost on the light. Although a 7$ profit does not seem worth your while you now have earned a customer and paid an hours wage to the teenager dipping fish and cleaning glass. My point being that even though you won't buy a plane ticket to the Keys on the light sale you made money on someone who would have otherwise logged on, pointed, and clicked then went out and played golf instead of coming to your store. Make your profits by selling ALOT of well priced 'consumables'. Think about this how often does the average customer buy a $1000 light? How many times per year does that same customer come in for salt, food, light bulbs, cleaning gadgets, etc. You will earn more customers that will visit more often instead of worrying about their spouse asking them if they felt anything hit them in the back while they were walking out of the LFS (like their change).


My .02

Walmart has some mighty deep pockets though, and are hardly the norm when it comes to retail. When you are doing the low margin, high volume business model, the first thing that goes out the window is customer service and staff knowledge. That's why the only way Walmart can sell a computer is to lose money on it by being the cheapest. On dry goods that can be stocked in a warehouse indefinitely and dusted off when needed, you can do it if your pockets are deep enough, but on an inventory that must be meticulously cared for and can still "expire" you can't gut your staff. That adds to overhead which increases the markup. Add that to the fact that most "good" lfs's are small time sole proprietorships just doing it for the love of the hobby and a house payment and the ability to do a lot of loss leaders and deep discounts just goes out the window. I can tell you from 6 years of experience running my own place, this business ain't like no other. If it's not something you enjoy, you'll burn out quick cause doing it for the money ain't gonna cut it. (You definitely need a good dose of the fish geek gene.)


I think what most hobbyist don't quite understand is that although the mark up on live animals can be fairly high, by the time you sell it you are doing good to break even. Once you deduct the cost per day of running the pumps, halides, water changes, employees, and insurance, that small piece of coral has to pay rent for every day you keep it, the longer you have it the less you make off it. If a store is going to to actually quarantine the fish to protect the hobbyist and include a health guarantee that adds to the cost of the animal as well (selling right out of the bag can be bad news). So you can take the average tank time, add that to the cost of the coral (plus the shipping charges), and then mark it up to make a little profit for yourself. Then subtract something for all of the average to mediocre pieces that are going to sit for a while or be sold at a discount and suddenly the livestock markup is pretty small at the end of the month. This puts more pressure on the dry goods markup to pay the overhead (rent, utilities, replace equipment, etc.) And makes it that much harder to stock items that are only going to be purchased once or twice a year (that budget is usually taken up by using tanks as the loss leaders).

On a hopeful note though, as the hobby gets bigger, manufacturers will start making more stuff for it, prices will drop, meaning stores can stock equipment they actually make money on and you guys will be able to get stuff at a fair price even easier. There has been a big shift in the last two years on the distributor end. Distributors that barely even carried salt are now carrying hqi's, chillers, and other high end stuff (still looking for a decent skimmer though). But it works off of positive feedback, the more stuff that gets sold through the traditional channels, the more stuff pops up there. It is unfortunately a wheel that only money can turn.


/didn't mean fot that to be so long......

[MyReef]

I am all for a thread about what you want to see, but please keep it specific to generic LFS and if you work at a store, you cannot say we have X item for X price...that is considered a commercial post. Thanks....