Failed tank (picture intensive)

[Ray1214]

Ahhh I get it the frame is for the top. Still even less sense..

Ray

[MyReef]

Daytona....once the top is altered in such a severe way no one would warranty a product. It went from a full top wth 3/4" thick support around the entire top with 2-3 opening to a euro bracing with no center brace. Any acrylic mfg would not warranty a product that has been altered so severely. Once you start drilling on acrylic tanks, I would say 99% of mfg void the warranty....just as if you buy a glass tank and it shatters while you are drilling a bulkhead hole.....

I do feel Chris' pain and I hated to be the one to corroburate the findings....I feel bad genuinely....but I had to tell the truth on the structural capacity of the tank without the designed top.

[Ray1214]

Dang, Chris. I think the two tank idea is the best. If I can ever convince she who must be obeyed for a large project, I will prolly just get someone like Andy to build it.

I think the tank seam at the bottom was weak but like Andy said once you modified it, the aquarium manufacture can void the warrenty.

Ray

[Melissa]

Wow, Chris. I hate to see that happen. To echo others, it's a good thing you did decide to test it out first before putting it in a room with carpet, etc.

I think that since you already have all the plumbing, other equipment, etc, that it would be worth the wait to see if another tank of the same dimensions becomes available, even if it takes some time. It would definitely be a beautiful display! What about a glass tank?

Melissa

[akula]

Datona955...you have to read the details..."What hurts me even worse is that the guy I bought it from was supposed to send it back and didn't- he really didn't even own the tank. " The original ad was a guy that had a tank made. the first tank that was made was wrong size wise, so a second tank was made. the first tank was supposed to be sent back to the manufacturer (in NJ) but instead the guy sold it at half price claiming the company didnt want it back. when I read the origal ad I thought it sounded fishy. no company would just write off an expensive tank like that. the original owner claimed the company didnt want to come all the way from NJ to get the tank. anyone should know that you dont have to go get a tank personally to pick it up, you could just hire a moving company to go, crate it up and ship it back to the manufacurer. perhaps there was an argument over who was paying shipping and so the original owner sold the tank just to be greedy. so mojo ends up with 2 wammys against a warentee, first of he is not the original purchaser, so most likely the warrentee wouldnt extend to him anyway, unless, and this is where the second wammy comes in, if there was a way to transfer the warentee to a second owner (this would have had to happen before the failure tho) the issue that this is in effect a "hot" tank. effectively stolen by the first guy buy not returning it to the company and dumped on someone. The company has lost money on this tank already so I doubt they are going to put more money out there on this tank. Andys point about the modification to the tank also killing a warentee claim further backs up the idea that any warentee is moot. Best thing now is get a price for repair of the tank and go from there. it is an unfortunate situation but as a NYer I thought the original ad was suspect.

I wonder if the seller could be sued for selling the tank to recover the money Mojo paid for it? Is the seller a member of ARC?

[mojo]

akula- you're dead on.. I don't have a leg to stand on. Yes, I should have checked into the guy's story more before taking his word on it, but "hindsight is 20/20."

fussoverthis: I thought about glass, but I like the idea of acrylic (well, used to) because after bonding, it's virtually one piece of plastic, making a leak near impossible. I travel a fair amount, and would rather come home to a tank full of dead animals (due to power outage, etc) than a house soaked with saltwater (due to a leak). I'm getting some quotes on a new acrylic, but it'll be a while before I lay out the money again.

Daytona555 & Ray1214: Even if I had enough evidence, it's not worth my time and money to go through any sort of litigation or mediation to resolve this with the manufacturer; it'd cost me more than I paid for the tank (both in dollars and in my time). I'm better off to cut my losses and work the extra time I'd be devoting towards that, and get a tank down the road.

I went through all the same reasonings as everybody else- trying to find a way to hold the manufacturer at fault. While still personally question the workmanship of AFY, and wouldn't recommend a tank from them based on what what I've experienced, I cannot directly prove that it was a workmanship issue and not because of my frame. If I would have filled it up with water BEFORE making modifications and it would have broke, then I would have something to fight with. But as Andy said - once it has been altered so severly, no manufacturer will stand behind it, despite what the real cause might have been.

As for repair, I doubt that'll be an attractive option. I'll get a quote, but at ~$200 for a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" acrylic + onsite labor, that wouldn't be a cheap fix for something that's questionable. I'd rather cut them down and make the frag tanks or large refugiums.

The last thing I considered was using my homeowners insurance to cover the tank, but if my rates go up because of that, then I'd be paying a lot more in the long run.

[mojo]

akula: "I wonder if the seller could be sued for selling the tank to recover the money Mojo paid for it? Is the seller a member of ARC?" I don't think he's a member. His name is Johnathan Sisler (I have no problem putting his name here after what came out); I'd recommend that no one do business with him if possible, or cautiously, if so.

But, again, even a small claims court proceeding would cost more in money and time than if I just worked instead...

[akula]

yah I checked the log in name. the ad for the tank was only the third post. I have always heard the advice to not buy from people that have only joined a board only to sell stuff but I have generally not paid attention to that advice. you know where he lives though? not to start a war but I would contact the manufacturer to find out if they plan on sueing for the original price of the tank. you could provide the proof that the tank didnt get lost in shipping, that the guy did sell it when he shouldnt have. maybe with the threat of a suit the guy will refund you. maybe turn this into the local cops. they can confirm with the manufacturer that the tank was to be returned and so he can feel the heat for selling stolen goods. as part of the case against him maybe the judge would order repayment to you? overall though it would seem that since your far enough into the project that the repair price might be worth it in the overall picture.

what kind of work does this guy do? does he have a professional license? I have seen the tactic that a complaint of criminal activity to the licensing board can cause a revoking of said license and then all of a sudden the guy resolves the outstanding issue in order to keep his license/ business reputation.

as a minimum I would print out the original for sale ad that the guy posted to save as evidence. otherwise he could go back and edit it down to nothing to cover his *****.

[bgi]

There is a lot of conjecture and quick conclusion-jumping here. I see no need to smear the seller's name around over this. No evidence has been presented that he's at fault or on the wrong for anything.

He doesn't post on the forum much, right? What does that prove? It proves that he doesn't post to this forum much. No more. No less.

[akula]

bgi...as to the idea that he doesnt post much, it is just a general thing that is said, like on e bay, to be causious when deling with sellers that have only one post, the first post being something for sale. based on no history of previous safe deals a low post count can be a warning to be careful. it is like a "fly by night" operation. plenty of people have been burned like that so it is a basic thing to watch for. could still be a good deal, but maybe not. it is always buyer beware especially as the price goes up.

[mojo]

bgi: I talked to the manufacturer about Sisler. His first reaction was far from kind regards. Sisler bought a tank from the manufacturer (actually created in FL and sent up to ATL). The tank was the wrong dimensions, so he was supposed to be sending it back while a new tank was sent. He told the manuf that the tank was sent. After his new tank was setup, he sold the original one (the one that was to be sent back) to me. He did not own this tank, and it was not his to sell, and he obviously knew this. This scam is called fraud.

I've tried calling several times, and have left voice messages, but he will not return my calls.

Evidence? Not much. Would I recommend buying from him again? Absolutely not- Regardless of the fact that this tank broke, what he did was flat out wrong. You make your own conclusions.

[bgi]

akula: Of course. That's good advice, "Be careful." Folks get burned by frequent posters, too. I'm no frequent poster, myself.

Ok, evidence presented. Thanks for the clarification - perhaps I missed that. I'll check...

[bgi]

Oh, I see. Akula posted that about "supposed to send it back." I would have caught that and remembered if mojo had posted it post. sorry.

Mojo, if it is true that the seller was supposed to have sent it back, I would be concerned about the liability of possessing stolen property! What does the manufacturer have to say about this?

Needless to say there's a whole lot to dislike about this whole situation.
Anywhoo, I'd do something with it! like, fix it or make smaller tanks.

best wishes and best of luck with the next steps, mojo.

[mojo]

The manufacturer doens't want anything to do with it. I talked to the president of the manuf back and forth over email (and did keep everything as professional as possible), and he knows my entire situation. I sent him an email after discussing the problems with Andy, stating that because I have no hard evidence either way, that I'm absolving him from any responsibilities. I never heard back after that. The manuf has had plenty of chances (and still does) to ask for their broken tank back. From what I've seen so far, they don't want to touch it, especially now.


In any case- I'm moving on. I'm going to look into creating the two frag tanks (or a frag tank and a really big refugium) that I mentioned before.

I'm thinking about routing halfway down the tank, all the way around, and flipping the top piece upside down, so that the top lips of both tanks are the routed part. Then the sides of the new tanks will need to be reconstructed (maybe out of 1/2", since the height is only ~14" at this point?), and the bottom (1/4 or 3/8?) of the new tank will need to be bonded. And I might try adding a brace on this time, although I have a nice frame that I'd like to get some use out of...!

If someone knows much about acrylic and wants to lend a hand, I'd be most appreciative!

[akula]

"But, again, even a small claims court proceeding would cost more in money and time than if I just worked instead..."

you may be suprised. I once had a moron kick in the door of my car in a college parking lot while I was in class. turns out someone saw the event and wrote down the plate number of the car the vandel got into and left me a note on my windshield. campus police traced the plate number to a parking sticker application and this got the name. A police report was filed and the ding dong admitted to his action. door repair was 1250 bucks. as a deal to plea him to probation, the DA made restitution part of the deal. I recieved a money order for the whole cost and it didnt cost me anything for the recovery of the money. just a few phone calls and a trip to the police departent for evidence photos to be taken. it was actually a smooth deal. the police made it an easy situation. you might not have to deal with court or lawyers. the whole thing was over in less than 3 weeks. I also got rental car cost for the time my car was in the body shop.