Advice Needed

[robsweet]

Hi guys.

As most of you know, I'm cycling up my first tank and I'm trying to decide if the time is right to get a clean-up crew into the tank.The tank's been cycling since Jan. 14. At this point, I saw a bloom of blue-green algae that's already gone away and now I'm seeing filamentous algae. From 'The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, Vol. 1', it looks like it's mostly Derbesia.

Some pics: http://ldg.net/~rob/reef/tank_pics/ (Yeah, I know the page is ugly but it's a busy day today. )

So now the questions:

1) I'm thinking to get the 'Combo Tank and Reef Cleaner Basic 75' (my tank's a 65 so I'm rounding up) from MarineDepot.com. It contains the following:

18 Scarlet Hermit Crabs, 30 Turbo (or Astrea) Snails, 45 Mexican Red-Leg (or 90 Blue-Leg) Hermits, 2 Abalone (or 3 Tiger Tail Cucumbers), 3 Emerald Mythrax Crabs, 2 Sand Sifting Cucumbers, 1 Pink & Black Sifting Cucumber, 1 Brittle Star, 1 Red or Black Banded Serpent Star, 1 Red Fromia/Orange Knobby Star, 15 Burrowing Snails.

Any comments on my choice of packages?

2) What 'signals' should I be looking for in terms of when to add the cleanup crew. Understandably, I'm anxious to get something moving around in the tank and I also want to make sure that the algae stays under control but I don't want to introduce these critters too early and cause myself additional headaches. Can I order them up or should I wait a bit longer?

3) I know that with fish I need to be careful to acclimate them to the tank slowly. Do I need to do anything special w/ a clean-up crew or can I just sorta dump them in?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Lifestudent]

I'd make sure that your ammonia level was real low or zero before I'd add the cleanup crew (<5ppm). You might also check to see if you have any nitrates which would indicate that you're at the end of the nitrogen cycle. Also since you have live rock, this process should go pretty quickly; probably a 7-10 days to cycleor so vs. 24+ days w/o LR.

I'd check the salinity of the cleanup crew water and compare it to your tank. I'd drip water from your tank into a container containing the crew until the salinity matched or came to within one thousandths of a point (e.g., 1. 023).

As to fish to cycle a new tank, one idea that I got from Jenn is to cycle it with molleys that have been acclimated to saltwater. This avoids the typical "mistake"/problem of having cycled the tank with DAMsels and only latter trying to remove them because they are so aggressive.

Good luck!

Bob

[JennM]

The best "sign" that it's OK to add critters is to test the water or have the water tested by your LFS. When Ammonia and Nitrite are zero and Nitrate is close to zero, pH is 8.0 to 8.4, and your temp is 78-80, you're good to go.

IMHO most of those "kits" available online consist of too many organisms. Sure they might do a stellar job on the intial diatom blooms that occur in a new tank, but soon they are starving to death once they run out of stuff to eat, the hermits end up eating the snails and things that die off. 3-6 cucumbers in any tank would be excesive. Usually one in a mature tanks suffices. But I digress....

I just looked at Marine Depot's website. For way less than $214, plus $25 + 10% shipping, you can get more than enough creatures locally to keep your tank spiffy. I'd start with a few and add more as needed, IF needed. But then again, I'm hardly unbiased However, having done a bit of fast math, I honestly don't think it's that great of a value.

Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

Jenn

[JennM]

Originally posted by Lifestudent

As to fish to cycle a new tank, one idea that I got from Jenn is to cycle it with molleys that have been acclimated to saltwater. This avoids the typical "mistake"/problem of having cycled the tank with DAMsels and only latter trying to remove them because they are so aggressive.

Good luck!

Bob

I think I'm being misquoted here. I NEVER advocate cycling with fish. I advocate cycling with live rock. Some people do cycle with mollies, which are great algaevores, and if one does place mollies in their saltwater tank, they MUST be carefully acclimated to salt water, not just thrown in out of freshwater. Mollies are also good fish to inhabit hospital tanks, as they are not nearly as aggressive as damels, but they can keep the biological going. I also advocate that they be given appropriate decorations/hidey oles etc., to live a pleasant life.

Also - Ammonia and Nitrite MUST be at ZERO (close doesn't count) especially for invertebrates, snails in particular, which are sensitive to pollutants in their water.

Once the live rock is cured and the tank cycled, there is no need for "disposable" fish, the fish considered for the display can be added slowly, considering the dispositions of chosen inhabitants when determining the order in which they are added.

Jenn

[Rick O]

Hi Rob. This is just my opinon but I don't see the purpose in many of the items on the list, such as the star fish. Especially in a new tank. I would start out with a majority of astrea snails, a few turbo snails, and a few red leg hermit crabs. You can add from there as needed. IMO the sand burrowing critters wouldn't survive in such a new tank.

BTW Imagine Ocean has astreas for $.79 ea. (no shipping)

IMO, JM.02

[wasabi]

im in agreement with that. i would get 100 astrea's for 80.00 at jenn's. in my opinion that is not too many for a 75 gallon. i put 100 in a 55 and have still added a few over the past several years. then you can spend some of the leftover on a couple serpents and crabs. i still like my scarlets and blue leggs if it was me id put about 50 of each in there along with the astrea's. i have put 450 snails+ crabs in my 335

[percula]

FWIW - Marinedepotlive.com... isnt the greatest place to order from, and Ill never do it again....

[robsweet]

Thanks everybody! I appreciate the input.

I'm still pondering what I want to do but you've all given me more to think about.

Thanks again.

[GeoJoe]

I think that a great "starter" fish that's not too expensive - yet tolerant to changing water conditions would be a chromis.

Get 3 or more so that they'll school together, and you'll be able to guage what you can add later by the look of these reef safe, non aggressive fish.

good luck - and no damsels if you can help it.

Joe

[robsweet]

Hmm...the word that I'd heard was that I shouldn't add more than one fish at a time for the first few fish to let the tank sort of settle in between.

[GeoJoe]

Chromis are small and school together so they'll be a light impact on your new set up. And they'll probably last the lifetime of your tank.

What do you have so far?

[kevinwholder]

you may want to check out saltwaterfish.com. they have critter cleanup packages as well and provide free overnight priority shipping.. Is a good deal!!

[robsweet]

What do I have so far?

That's easy. Rock.

Specifically, 45 lbs. of Marshall Island mostly cured. No critters yet although I'm about to do an ammonia test and if that turns out well, I'll probably be looking to get a clean-up crew in there in the next week or so and I was thinking of starting the fish off with a Blenni at the end of the month.

Kevin - Thanks for the tip, I'll check them out.