Discussion of the Week(s): The Sump

[Geoff]

What are these and are they necessary? what advantages do they have? are there any disadvantages? How are they defined? Why do people feel they have to keep putting stuff in them? How does the water get there and back?

G~

[tims]

this should be fun Geoff...
i am just about to start a 50 g. sump this weekend!... maybe we can make it a class project too...

are they necessary? i donto thnk so , but a good plus in the long run.
by adding a sump you increase the water volume of the set up it self, increase surface area, incerease gas exchange, allow a place to put a heater if you need one, also allow the skimmer to either be in the sump out drilled adn extended from it. adding things to a sump i think is sorta making back to the trickle filters of yester year... although have carbon for the tank i think is a good thing.
you have various pumps that can be placed in to the sump or piping from the sump to an external pump then to the tank.
in the over all look of the tank with having a sump you shoudl be able to lean up the hang on extrenals.. and if you add a Closed loop system to it!..... better no t jump ahead..

[icebear]

i ditched my sump for now. there was just too much space taken up believe it or not, its only a 30, but i noticed evaporation was greatly increased and i was forever topping it off or finding the pump in low water and growling away- usually when i was scrambling off to work or some other scheduled obligation, and my overflow kept getting clogged with the hair algae and it just simply looked downright fugly after a while.... after evicting all my remaining fish except the maroon clown and the clingfish, i figured i didn't need the extra 25 or so gallons of volume and PITA anyway. Call me nuts, but i'm going to try to go as simple as possible and rely on basic back-of-the-tank powerfilters and a couple of powerheads for now. i'll put on the removable micron filters every now and then and hide my skimmer in the back somewhere. The heater is a submersible and can be hidden behind one of the powerfilter's uptake tubes.

it can't get much worse than it was anyway..... i might even run the stupid fluval empty for a little extra circulation, but with shrooms, i don't think i need the water that wild.


i may make something of a study of bare-bones reefing. dunno. i'm sure smarter people than me have done better at the 'bare bones' idea.... and quite frankly it may be an 'art' that i have no business even trying to practice.


i'm too busy and i guess too lazy, and thogh i love the hobby and all its intricate parts, i am just not as devoted as i would like to be. I have to make this as simple as i can without having to hire an Aquarium Rescue Unit to do maintanence for me every other week

[ncreefer]

I guess I'm as lazy/busy as the next guy, being the manager of a 24/7 NOC and all.... but this article helped me manage my aquarium's water and salinity with only a $10 investment! worth it in my book.

http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/auto_topoff.html

[Geoff]

that is still more complicated than my auto-top-off.

i only have a mechanical float valve attached to my water purifier. that is it. the only problems i have had were the 1/4" line degrading due to UV from the lights.

i trust mechanical over electrical.

G~

[Geoff]

hmm, i figured there would be more interest in this topic.

how much flow should you put through a sump?

G~

[tims]

I guess that depends on how much Stuff you have in it. is it a sump only or do you have a refuge in the center to?
If you have an increased flow say 700- 1000 gph is that too fast for a skimmer to do its work?

[Cosine]

Originally Posted by tims

I guess that depends on how much Stuff you have in it. is it a sump only or do you have a refuge in the center to?
If you have an increased flow say 700- 1000 gph is that too fast for a skimmer to do its work?

I've heard people say that if water is moving through the sump to quickly it can cause the skimmer not to work as well.
I don't understand this. I mean the skimmer has it's own pump and takes water in a its own rate. There's always gonna be water in the sump and once it is in the skimmer it goes through at the skimmers speed right? So the skimmer is still picking up the same amount of water?
I could be missing a huge factor here but from the was I see it now the skimmer should work the same as long as water is there.
If the water flows slower let's say 2 "units" per minute all of that two units might go in to the skimmer on that turn over. If water flowns at 6 units per minute the skimmer might get 1/3 of everyunit. So maybe some water is travelling through the sump but not getting picked up on that trip. However the skimmer is still getting the same amount of water (2 units) and processing at the same rate.
So maybe the water is flowing faster than it needs too to get skimmed but I don't see the disadvantage of the higher flow.
Now Tim, Geoff, Tom and all
I'm sure you'll all tell me why I'm wrong!

[tims]

Well perphaps we should define what a sump is and a refuge is.. they seem to almost a generic trem now adays... my idea of a sump may not be yours and so on.
i know when we did the rufuge a few months back there was a pretty big difference on what it was . algae collection or time out room for bad or sick or hurt fish and critters..
Cosine.. that s what i mean. in my mind's eye the amount of flow should not matter as far as the skimmer doing its job...but it that a known fact?
Does having a protein skimmer "in" the sump that has a refuge filled with various plant live a good thing? does that mean the plant live may not be removing what it needs to?.and what if they have sand in thast part of the refuge?
Geoff i could come up with a ton of questions if i keep thinking about all of this. .

[Geoff]

this brings into question where should the skimmer be located in relation to the fuge?

if it is before the fuge than it will be removing most of the food stuff for the critters you are trying to keep in the fuge, right?

if it is after than you are cleaning up all of the stuff that the fuge is producing, right?

hmm, think about that for a little bit.

G~

[Cosine]

well I guess you just have to seperate them right?
I was reading something about your setup yesterday I think Geoff. So you flow from sump-->fuge-->tank
but could you instead not connect them directly?
I mean the tank flows to each and returns from each but they never flow directly to each other during one turnover. I don't know if this would have any advantage?

[Geoff]

i have not updated my site in a while.

i actually do not have a fuge at all anymore. i run from a tiny sump, directly into the skimmer which dumps into a 4" PVC pipe that contains my temp control system. this then just dumps back into the display.

what does a fuge do for you? you, as in everyone.

G~

[Cosine]

Well I'm trying to get ideas for my 120 that is in the works
I don't plan on a fuge since it is a primarily softie tank so I want to keep some nutrients in there. I think that a skimmer can work well without the fuge for this setup.

[ereefic]

Interesting topic, especially since i'm designing a new sump right now. I'd like to run my design past you all for your input. Suggestions are certainly welcome.

Display will be a 210 with dual 1" overflows. The sump will be a 120 long (72x18x20) and will be in the basement. The water will drop about 9' to the sump. 1200 gph max will run through the sump.

[tims]

does not look too bad at all.
what will be the head pressure of the pump pushing water back to the tank. it will have to be over 9 feet..