Discussion of the Week ~methods for removing organics~

[mojoreef]

OK a new topic for this week. Understanding that DSB's have thier limitations and draw backs. Lets discuss some alturnative methods in the removal of organics and thier biproducts form our reefs.

Thier are many folks that use many differing ways to do this sucessfully. so lets hear them. What are your ways and way.


Mike

[Doug1]

OK since ya'll are being bashful, I'll start off by saying BIG @$$ SKIMMER!!!!!!!!!!!
Unlike mechanical or biological filtration, a properly running foam fractionating device physically separates certain organics from the water column, resulting in lowered levels of Nitrogenous waste due to correspondingly lower levels of organics.
Not an end all be all solution but a valuable tool for closed system management, esp when used with some basic knowledge of the dynamics of a closed system.

[icebear]

waterchanges?

[NewReefer]

Those sound good to me, adding twice a week I turkey blast(or PH) the rocks, to keep as much particles loose until they get to the skimmer. I lightly vacuum surface particles when water changing, I figure once I suck out enough sand I can replace it with fresh stuff. Maybe this is bad MOJO? I still have thought of moving the DSB to a remote location to take advantage of isolating it for upkeep. I've put a feeder which supplies a fixed amount of spectrum pellets once a day, supplementing once or twice a week with shrimp mush stuff. Still working on cooling the system down to 77-78 degrees instead of 80.5 to 82. Think maybe lower temp may benefit the DSB also alone with the tank life. Question my thoughts on this and we'll start another discussion LOL!
Scott T. Ardoin

[Phantom Phish]

Nothing too original, but I'm using a skimmer 24/7, 20% water changes every 3 or 4 weeks, and a fairly large (55 gal)macroalgae/refugium tank with "remote" DSB. So far seems to be working pretty well.

[Big Dave]

This question just popped into my head... are a certain amount of organics left in the water column and tank good for our inhabitants? Does a tank that is too clean of organics have any ill effects? Now don't get me wrong - in NO way am I saying my tank is too clean!! Just curious!

-Big Dave

[Phantom Phish]

I think thats a good question, and I've wondered about it too. Particularly when you consider that clams are pulling nitrates out of the water, and any ornamental macroalgaes also, not to mention all the other filter feeders we keep in our tanks. My guess is that, theoretically, you could pull too many organics out of your tank, but that from a practical stand point our nutrient export systems generally aren't efficient enough to get that far ahead of the curve.

[Reefer Addict]

I also use a Turkey Baster and blast the nooks and crannies in the rocks and to stir up the top layer of the sandbed.
I put a foam filter with a nylon stocking over the end of my overflow hose in the sump so it catches all the particulate matter after I'm done stirring everything up.
Then I remove the filter and rinse it out after the water clears up.
Works like a charm.

[icebear]

Originally posted by Big Dave
This question just popped into my head... are a certain amount of organics left in the water column and tank good for our inhabitants? Does a tank that is too clean of organics have any ill effects? Now don't get me wrong - in NO way am I saying my tank is too clean!! Just curious!

-Big Dave

i think so in a way, i hear a lot of people say that featherdusters slowly starve in most tanks...well i have what looks like many 100s of them in all sizes from pencil eraser to quarter sized and well, they just keep getting bigger- they must be eating something since i don't skim much cause my skimmer only ever made bubbles in my tank and never got much out... and my tank has never been short on nitrates, and i have heard that clams like nitrates too, i only have the unnamed boring clams that come on LR, but they are still there after a year.

i agree that ammonia and nitrites are bad- thats obvious, but i think trates and phates are used by some critters other than just hair algae, no i have no research for that, but this tank has been up for a full year now and the only critters i have lost have been due to accidental squishing (cleaner shrimp) or hurried acclimation (snails).

its MH and uneducated O

[mojoreef]

What the problem is is feeding in general, lol what goes in has to come out, if left unchecked they will build up. As long as you feed your tank thier will be an adiquit amount of food available (as long as you feed what they need, or the biproduct of what gets eaten is taken up by the critter). Thier will alway be an ammount of trate, trites and ammonia in the tank and available as it gets processed. I feel the accumulation of organics is the real problem, so for me a simple vacuum and most of the deterus is gone and with it most of the problems

Mike

[cath]

One problem that I've had with my tank is the super nutrient rich water. I use water that I make with the basic Tap Water Purifier. Skim with a Bak Pak 2R, (which produces skimmate anyone would be proud of LOL) have a 3 inch DSB over about 1 1/2 inch cc and oolite. I ONLY feed the 2 fish (flake food). Yeh, I know I should use blender mush, but egad my water is already rich enough to grow quite a crop of coraline and hair algae. No sump. No refugium. I currently change about 2 1/2 gal (my tank is a 29) about every 2 weeks. I suppose a more aggressive water changing routine would help.

[NewReefer]

Since I moved up to a 100g with a 30g sump, there is more to my cleaning process, asides skimming, vacuuming, basting and water changes, there seems to be one more duty that wasn't nearly as bad with my small tank, YepaROO ALGAE! Seems like I have to do more algae cleaning or Algae patrol as I say. Even though it seems the battle of red slime is getting better, it is a constant battle to make sure it doesn't get out of control. I can say aside the initial brown algae bloom in the beginning it hasn't been out of wack, that I couldn't easily take care of it. I'm not Algae expert by far, by way far but I'd imaging Algae has to be part of a balanced system and maybe even a part of warning us that yes we have a build up of organics or maybe a warning that we need to do some house cleaning. I don't know if algae actually thrives on organics or byproducts of waste but to me it would seem a perfect food source along with lighting? When I water change, I've added a sock filter in the sump and grab a PH and blast the rocks, it stirs up the solids pretty well better than a baster. I do the algae magnetic thing on the glass followed up with a brush for those tight and hard to reach spots. Then shut down the sump circulation pump and vacuum up the loose stuff as much as I can. Then I refill with new water and turn on everything, I drop in a sack of carbon until the tank clears up, then remove the sock and carbon.
Now there you go, should I be doing more asides the major cleanings of pumps etc every quarter or so?

[CAT]

I had a bakpak, dsb and l.r. in my 29 gal. before I moved. Added a refugium full of pods and macro algae and the nitrates and phosphates dropped to 0 ppm. With the fuge in place, I don't feel so bad if I decide to vac the sand - something I was reluctant to do before because I was always sucking out too many pods.

[galleon]

New Reefer, Algae doesn'r remove organics. Very few species of photosynthesizing protists are able to rely on organic forms of phosphorous and nitrogen to be bioavailable for protein synthesis, etc. Algae for the most part uses INorganic forms of nutrients for its needs. In fact, Algae is a great way to increase organics, as the point of photosynthesis is to take inorganic carbon and radiant energy and alter it and fit it into to organic compounds for use in cell respiration and protein building. So, instead of getting an organic remover by using algae, you actually get an organic maker and pooler.

[mojoreef]

Yea but removing inorganics can be good to. and isnt the organics they are producing basically thier body???


MIke