Sponsor Our Community
Go Back   The Reef Tank > The Reference Place > Topic of the Week Archive


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-22-2002, 09:03 PM   #1
mojoreef
Shark
 
mojoreef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: wash
Posts: 2,262
Images: 89

Discussion of the Week ~ Coral feeding~


Well this should be a good one Coral feeding???

OK what do corals eat? do they eat? How do they eat? what kind of food do we use to feed them. What corals eat what kind of food. What shouldnt we feed them. Boy this question could go along way.

Lets here it folks

Mike
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
__________________
www.reeffrontiers.com
mojoreef is offline  
Old 12-22-2002, 10:34 PM   #2
Doug1
Ghost of reefers past
 
Doug1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Southern Oregon, Way West of Dimples ;)
Posts: 25,137
Images: 13
Oh this ought to be an interesting one Mike Esp since corals on the whole use a variety of food items and many different ways of prey capture. Add this to the fact that there seems to be less than unanomous agreement among the experts. It might be easier if we relate feeding regimens for particular corals, ie, I feed my (fill in blank) with(fill in blank)
__________________
Cowboy is a verb, not a noun
Doug1 is online now  
Old 12-23-2002, 06:48 AM   #3
Spanky
The Border Collie Mod
 
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
Images: 2
If they have a big enough mouth, occasional chunky foods. If not, bacteria, fish poop, and detritus work just fine for SPS.

Have fun with this guys, and Happy Holidays. See you when I get back.
Jerel
__________________
Clifford TRT's Mascot -->
Spanky is offline  
Old 12-23-2002, 08:41 AM   #4
Dad
filter feeder
 
Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 662
Images: 13
Have a safe trip Spanky, and Happy Holidays

bob
__________________
Keeper of the Cash AND the Reins for Dipstick (a.k.a. Drew)

Dad is offline  
Old 12-23-2002, 12:39 PM   #5
ShirleyM
Sailfin
 
ShirleyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 2,444
Images: 2
OK...what should I give my Wellsophylia Brain? I think it's looking a bit sad or hungry. It's paler than it used to be. I moved it out of direct light (sitting on sand) 2 days after bringing it home b/c it started shrinking up. In the shadier areas it looked healthier right away, but now it's starting to look a little pale...

We usually squirt Form. I and II, some Selcon, mysis, brine, those sorts of things on our corals about 1-2x/wk.

Thanks,
Shirley
Spanky, Have a GREAT trip!
ShirleyM is offline  
Old 12-23-2002, 10:41 PM   #6
galleon
Shark
 
galleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 1,588
Images: 7
Sir Spankus, no road rage this time, okay?

Three things: Zooxanthellae, ciliated siphonoglyphs, and cnidocytes. Corals are amazing animals in that they act as benthic algae, sedentary filter feeders and sedentary suspension feeders; they pretty much cover all the bases. Endosymbiotic zooxanthellae are the excuse most non-feeding aquarist use to justify their husbandry. Zoox provide not only organic carbon in a variety of forms, they also provide the organic matrix that acts as a nucleus for deposition of calcium carbonate. The algae not only naturally leaky in terms of release of organic nutrients, but corals also apparently stimulate the dinoflagellate give up some of its photosynthate.

However, corals are extremely energy demanding animals, with high rates of metabolism: producing calcium carbonate buttresses against reef energies as well as "keeping clean" on the bottom of the sea (mucus is metabolically expensive in the quantities corals produce it). Thus, this may evolutionarily explain the ability to gather food in so many ways (unless you follow McConnaughey, who claims that skeletogenesis may occur to benefit the zooxanthellae).

Ciliated siphonoglyphs (openings on either side of the mouth) circulate water through the gastrovascular cavity. Since corals are way below the circulatory system clade on the evolutionary road, they use diffusion to get oxygen to their cells. The cilia bring water to the high surface area, mesentary-laden gastrovascular cavity. Thus, any dissolved organic nutrients that are present in the water are brought into the polyp and can be actively transported through the cell membranes of the endodermal cells, and then broken down to yield ATP in the presence of the O2 that is diffused. While reefs are oligotrophic when it comes to free dissolved organic nutrients, many species of fish specifically utilize living coral structure as nocternal or diurnal protection. The dissolved organic matter (along with the solid waste, but thats a different transport/feeding mechanism) released by the fish comes in contact with the coral polyps before mineralizing/ammonifying bacteria. A problem with this may be the lack of efficient organic nutrient recycling in reef aquaria, thus, most of the organic carbon may reach the mineralizing bacteria before it is used by coral, thus building up the concentrations of DIN that are encountered.

The siphonglyphs can also bring in particulate/bacterial material to be consumed. The mesentaries that line coral gastrovascular cavities have incomplete sections that terminate in three lobes. These lobes are loaded with cnidocytes with nematocysts immobilize and phagocytosing cells begin processessing of this material. Mucus cells in the actinopharynx (inside the mouth) can also produce a mucal net or mucal sheets that is/are distributed by the siphonoglyph cilia (the polyp is usually closed). This is also likely how detritral and solid waste material is handled. This net can be withdrawn with prey and handled again by the incomplete mesenteries.

More recently identified is a primary means of consuming baceria that settles or is trapped against epitethial tissue, connective or otherwise: there are actually incomplete pores in the cell layer that collect and absorb bacteria

One the three kinds of cnidocyte "bags" (the cell structure that contains the thread or harpoon), spirocysts, have no harpoons, but sticky proteins on the thread that can help the polyp grip non mobile (non hostile) prey items (detritus, bacteria, etc.) that come in contact with the tentacles. Another major group of cnidocyte bags, of which most hobbyists are familiar, are nematocysts. This is a main way that larger, more motile prey items, such as crustacean zoea, megalops, mollusc trocophores, veligers, essentially most members of the zooplankton community and some members of the nekton community are captured. The prey is transferred using muscle process contraction in the tentacles, to the mouth, and are ingested using mucus sheets (some short-tentacled corals move the mouth to the captured prey). Larger prey items can be handled by extroverting the mesenterial filaments from the mouth and pre-digesting the prey via protease secretions and hydrolyzation.

For the most part, active feeding and digestive reactions/processes are pretty much "activated" by the presence of amino acids in the water from prey. In some species, circadian rhythm are created by the elevated presence of zooplankton at night. Relaxation/retraction during the day = reduced respiration and reduced need for energy.

Another feeding facet I am not very familiar with is bacterial cultivation by certain species. Horge or Jerel can likely give you a great explanation of how this works. I'd love to hear it myself .

So essentially, anything is fair game. Corals are playing catchup or balanceout with their energy requirements until a certain size/surface area is reached (what Jerel terms as "critical mass"). This size essentially where enough photosynthate and other resources are available due to high prey capture area and high zooxanthellae mitotic index/population density. This is usually when energy is budgeted to produce gonads along the mesenteries.

I don't have numbers on me (not at school, home for the holidays), but prey capture/consumption rate is very high per unit biomass on reefs, even with 70-90% of nutrition being derived from zooxanthellae. This prey capture rate must also be allowed to include the standard deviation that taking up nutrients and wastes of ectosymbiotic fish would provide (and farming bacteria, as well). For some species of arborose/ramose corals, this contribution to their nutrition can be quite significant. Therefore, corals are essentially bombarded with potential nutrition in the wild, and must use this fact to their every advantage.

BTW, I do remember that SPS, ramose corals such as Acropora, Pocillora and Stylophora actually had the highest food rationing.

In conclusion: feed your corals. Detritus, Artemia salina nauplii, copepods, fish poo, ground fish/shrimp/etc. proteins (blender mush!), etc.

I know I'm missing stuff... please jump in Horge!
__________________
"The cultured might call him heathenish, This man of few words, because his one care is not to interfere but to let nature renew The sense of direction men undo." Lao Tzu
galleon is offline  
Old 12-24-2002, 01:30 AM   #7
Doug1
Ghost of reefers past
 
Doug1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Southern Oregon, Way West of Dimples ;)
Posts: 25,137
Images: 13
Chris i am SO GLAD you cleared that up
__________________
Cowboy is a verb, not a noun
Doug1 is online now  
Old 12-24-2002, 02:31 AM   #8
cyberchef
Stress Monger
 
cyberchef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,186
Images: 11
Nice light reading which was put into such simple laymen terms that everyone wil be able to understand...

Now I'm going to go lie down in a nice dark quiet room till my head stops hurting...
__________________
cyberchef
Executive Chef Montgomery Country Club
Coral Fragging Plugs
cyberchef is offline  
Old 12-24-2002, 07:30 AM   #9
Rick O
Good boy
 
Rick O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Marietta, GA, USA
Posts: 7,889
Images: 54
Maybe we can get Tom to translate what Chris just said.
__________________
Rick O is offline  
Old 12-24-2002, 09:09 AM   #10
Gopher
squid
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Carolina (near Charlotte)
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally posted by galleon

...The siphonglyphs can also bring in particulate/bacterial material to be consumed. The mesentaries that line coral gastrovascular cavities have incomplete sections that terminate in three lobes. These lobes are loaded with cnidocytes with nematocysts immobilize and phagocytosing cells begin processessing of this material. Mucus cells in the acinopharynx (inside the mouth) can also produce a mucal net that is distributed by the siphonoglyph cilia (the polyp is usually closed). This is also likely how detritral and solid waste material is handled. This net can be withdrawn with prey and handled again by the incomplete mesenteries.

More recently identified is a primary means of consuming baceria that settles or is trapped against epitethial tissue, connective or otherwise: there are actually incomplete pores in the cell layer that collect bacteria, and are absorbed. ...
Wouldn't this be an effective argument against UV sterilizers on a reef tank? Or is the population of bacterium and such in a closed aquarium environment too overwhelming?

Based on the rest of your post I can see how OVER-skimming could also be harmful to the corals as well. (maybe??) I had always read that it was possible to over-skim and to avoid that condition. I think I can see why now. Thank You for possibly clearing up the why.
Gopher is offline  
Old 12-24-2002, 09:17 AM   #11
galleon
Shark
 
galleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 1,588
Images: 7
Quote:
I had always read that it was possible to over-skim and to avoid that condition.
I am of the opinion that it is not possible to overskim. As I also said in my post, most of any organic carbon/wastes released by organisms will be converted to a form unusable by corals by mineralizing bacteria (NH3/NH4) long before coral would have the opportunity, and thus build up in the system. If inorganic nutrients are being utilized, it is for photosynthesis only, not by cell uptake for nutrition.

Quote:
Wouldn't this be an effective argument against UV sterilizers on a reef tank? Or is the population of bacterium and such in a closed aquarium environment too overwhelming?
The population of bacteria in closed aquaria is overwhelming, with the baddies (potentially septic/pathogenic) far outnumbering the good (N-fixing/decomposing/bacterioplankton) in any situation. Also, if corals are actually growing the bacteria in their mucus or on their tissues, these bacteria are not going to be effected by UV.
__________________
"The cultured might call him heathenish, This man of few words, because his one care is not to interfere but to let nature renew The sense of direction men undo." Lao Tzu
galleon is offline  
Old 12-24-2002, 10:29 AM   #12
Doug1
Ghost of reefers past
 
Doug1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Southern Oregon, Way West of Dimples ;)
Posts: 25,137
Images: 13
I suspect this is where that compromise thing comes into play. As Chris stated thebacteria counts as well as nutrient levels are much higher in a closed system than in open water. take a 2x8' section of reef and consider the water volume available to it as opposed to the volume in a tank with the same footprint. Even a really trick setup using a couple 150g Rubbermaid stock tubs as sumps is no where near the volume of water. The trick always seems to be balancing water chem and quality against the needs of the organisms kept
__________________
Cowboy is a verb, not a noun
Doug1 is online now  
Old 12-26-2002, 08:58 AM   #13
MDT
Plankton
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maryville, TN, USA
Posts: 46
It seems that feeding the tank a reasonable amount is a good thing. Experts like Dr. Ron Shimek propose DT phytoplankton (live stuff) as some of the best. What about the frozen algae?

Isn't phytoplankton like throwing some nutritious veggies in the tank for many different animals (zooplankton) to eat, and in turn the reef will feed on the zooplankton (animals). Why would frozen veggies like Tahitian blend not be a very good substitute provided I new how much to feed?
MDT is offline  
Old 12-26-2002, 11:58 AM   #14
galleon
Shark
 
galleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 1,588
Images: 7
Well, if you're using UV to keep your bacterial levels down, you kill the phyto and feed no zooplankton.

If you aren't using UV, you can't produce enough zooplankton through phytoplankton feeding to provide for the nutritional needs of the entire tank. Thus, additional food is often supplied, leading to increased bacterial levels.
galleon is offline  
Old 12-26-2002, 04:22 PM   #15
MDT
Plankton
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maryville, TN, USA
Posts: 46
What do you think about this stuff?

http://www.roti-pods.com/

Would be expensive to buy a bottle every few weeks (and follow their recommended plan), but on an occasion....
MDT is offline  
Comparison Shopping
Six Line Wrasse

As low as $13

at 8 sellers

Eheim Filter Pad for 2217 Canister Filter

As low as $5

at 10 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Tropical Science Biolabs Aqua Chargers 350pc

As low as $22

at 4 sellers

400 Watt 10000K Metal Halide Bulb - Single Ended / Mogul - Coralife

As low as $68

at 7 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Tunze Cleaning Brush Set

As low as $9

at 3 sellers

400 Watt 14000K Metal Halide Bulb Single-Ended (Mogul) (All Brands)

As low as $20

at 15 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Ecosystem Aquarium Eco Balling Calcium B minerals - 8oz

As low as $6

at 3 sellers

Taam Seio M1500 Impeller Assembly

As low as $27

at 3 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Danner Pondmaster 2950 Deluxe Filter System

As low as $157

at 10 sellers

Korallin C-3002 Calcium Reactor

As low as $403

at 3 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

American Marine Pinpoint Nitrate Monitor

As low as $210

at 9 sellers

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Bio-Chem Zorb for RENA SmartFilter - 1 Pack

As low as $3

at 8 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals pH Up 16oz

As low as $10

at 42 sellers

Tunze Single Controller 7091

As low as $57

at 9 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

 

Tags
acro colonies , acro frag , acro frags , calcium test , coral growth , coral polyps , cyano bloom , filter feeder , macro algea , mysis shrimp , plenum system , protein skimmer , ron shimek , royal gramma , star polyp , star polyps



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196
Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Our lawyer tells us that, by pressing the "New Thread" or "New Reply" button, you acknowledge that the opinions and information expressed in your article are yours alone and not those of thereeftank.com, dba The Reef Tank. Further, you agree to indemnify The Reef Tank, its moderators, administrators and agents from any and all liability which may arise as a result of your article. (C)opyright 2006 TheReefTank.com
 
close
Sign up for free and join one of the largest communities of saltwater aquarists!
Our members will be glad to help you with anything you need!

Join over 30,000 TRT members!

Email

Email Confirm Email
Username
Password Confirm Password

I agree to the website rules