Discussion Of the Week ~ Alk~Cal~PH~

[mojoreef]

Ok a tough one this week. We will talk about Alkalinity, Calcium, and Ph. So if you got questions now is the time for them. Got problems raising one or the other or both? Want to understand how it works? How about how it affects your system? What do folks use to help keep these levels up? What are everyones levels?

Lets see some questions and lets have some answers.


have fun



Mike

[billc]

OK now that I have quit laughing at your expense.. Sorry about the fish.. I have a good understanding how alk and PH go hand in hand but when you add in the calcium you are just raising the conductivity of the water.. My training= ph up = alk.. ph down = acid.. Calcium = +conductivity.. I know the equation is over simplified but I am still not sure how calc and alk are separate..

Scratching my head..

[Doug1]

This should be a good one. I think this causes more stumbles than anything

[Mouse]

Lookin forward to this one as well, If possible can you guys also include which test kit{s} you use, how often you test, and any special prep for the testing you do. Thnx

[triggereel]

the prep I do before testing for pH
first I do a little streching then i start out with 100 push ups followed by 100 sit-ups oops. just kidding

Anyway I test once a week
I use the Salifert Test Kit for all testing (I want to purchase a pH meter, that would be a question I have, So the meters really work?)

My ALK is 2.8
pH 8.3
Calcium runs around 400

[ShirleyM]

I need this discussion more than any other topic...and even after reading and studying all of Tom Wyatt's wonderful, most helpful articles and answers, and getting things back in order, they just fall apart again if I don't stay right on it...

Do I really need to get a calcium reactor???? Would that help significantly??? (120-G Reef)

About pH probes: I have one and I really like it for it's convenience.
I hope it works.
I find I have to recalibrate every time I test it to see if it might need recalibrating....
In other words, I'll use it for a long time, maybe 3 months, and then think...I better test the calibration...and it needs recalibrating.
The same thing happens even if I test for recalibration after 2 weeks!

Do they ever stay calibrated? Are they accurate enough even though they lose their calibration?? (wishful thinking here...)

It's a Pinpoint pH Monitor by American Marine, Inc.

No, it doesn't need replacing...it's our 2nd one in 2-1/2 yrs.

--Shirley (aka clueless)

[Spanky]

Mornin Shirley and all

Nope Ph monitors don't stay regulated.

Here's my tale of woe. I started out with a Ca reactor. Seems like I could never get it adjusted right and the tank was eating one thing over the other all the time too. When I'd get the Ca right the Alk would be too low and visa versa. Not to mention, I was having to test all the time and add this or that to keep it adjusted.

I figured since I was testing and adjusting anyway, I might as well just stick to adding Ca and Alk and forget the reactor. Now I've got it more or less figured out and know to add X spoons of this and X spoons of that every day and test once a week to fine tune it.

Spanks

[bigjohn]

This looks like the perfect spot for some newbie questions.

I received my first ever calcium test kit (Salifert) on Friday, and did my first ever calcium test in the 3-1/2 year existence of my tank. Up until about 2 months ago it was FOWLR, but I have started to add a few soft corals. BTW, I also got the Salifert KH and pH test kits, and here are my results.

pH 8.1
alk 3.5 meq/L
Calc 320 ppm

What level of calcium should I shoot for?? I don't have any designs on SPS for quite a while.

What is a recommended regimen for maintaining/boosting all these levels??

[Hommeworks]

Here's another wrinckle. Do you add Ca at daytime when pH is higher, then Alk in evening when pH is lower??? Or vie-versa, or does it really matter???

[ShirleyM]

Whatever makes the pH go up, add it at night when the pH naturally goes down somewhat so you don't have a pH spike, - what I've heard and read.

Spanky: pH Monitors...how often do you recalibrate?

Thanks,
Shirley

[Spanky]

I threw the one at home out with the Ca reactor. LOL Between fooling with the reactor, the CO2 tank, the Ph monitor, the test kits, having to add buffer and Ca anyway - well you get the picture

Now I just throw in CaCl2, that doesn't mess with the Ph. And use a combination of mostly sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate for buffer.

Most of the Ph monitors we have at work are calibrated on a as needed basis, we do have some that run constantly and those are calibrated at least once a week.

Spanks

[galleon]

Our pH probe is recalibrated with each use, but probably only needs to be recalibrated once every few uses.

At the moment we do the same thing at the lab that Spanky does, formulaically testing for calcium and alkalinity and adding only CaCl2 and NaHCO3.

[balakoth]

Ok enough jibber jabber... :P

Can someone give me a nice explination of what ALK in the tank affects and what different levels present with problems or solving problems.

I have had this nitrate problem, and for some reason my LFS suggested I try dosing SeaChem Reef Builder along wih my Kent Marine Alk buffer. THough I am not seeing how this would help any of those params.

Does consistant Alk/Ph/Calcium help maintain optium water qualities or is it vise versa?


joe

[seahawkjohnny]

Unless you allow nitrates to get over 30 in a reef tank, I wouldnt worry about them....its just a food source for some organisms...if you are worried about it, try a refugium, or Tridacna clam, they are considered to be the "farmers" of the sea...they are also great at removing phosphates....the clams with the more bland coloring work the best...such as Durasa, Gigas, Squamosa

[mojoreef]

Wow way to answer everyones questions Spanky.

I use a calcium reactor, I got tired of floating the tubs of turbo calc in the sump, or using a shovel to keep levels up. With my reactor I concintrate on the alk. measure and dont really pay alot of mind to the cal. as long as it doent flutuate (in my situation) I have a great demand on the calcium and I have learned that the cal pigs will take as much as I can give.

Ok here is a quick and dirty explaination of Alk and cal. with out getting to deep. So Tom dont pick on me . Alk serves many purposes in your water chemistry. One is that it is a buffer for your PH. As in, the higher your alk is the more acid (fish poop and stuff) your tank will be able to handle with out it affecting your PH. Another use of Alk is how it reacts with other elements in your water, one of which is calcium. GOing from memory here so correct me if I am wrong. For every calcium ion produced, there are two equivalents of carbonate alkalinity, so this would mean that any changes in alk will affect your calcium levels also. I believe the formula for this change is 1 mEq/L change in alkalinity will change the calcium ion concentration by 0.5 µM.

Ok so the bottom line is that alk, cal, mag and others are all interconnected with each other and have a direct affect on each other. Thus when we are screwing around with additives and we know what our tanks require to be replaced we must make sure that all levels go up in a balanced manner. Just raising one and leaving the other low will not work.

Shirley the PH usually goes down at night because the lights go off and photosysnthesis stops. This is why it is said that it is better to light your refugium on a reverse cycle from your tank, this way the photo... never stops and your PH swing will be less drastic.


Well thiers a start.



Mike