Discussion of the Week ~Additives~

[mojoreef]

all right we have a new topic. Additives. What do we use in our tanks? how do u replace cal? alk? trace elements?. Is kalk enough, what are the downsides to kalk. how about reactors what are the pros and cons to this one. Are bottled additives poisen in a bottle or is that something from the lower depths of the sand bed .


let hear it folks what do u use, what are the good ones what are the bads? give us some pros and cons.



Mike

[icebear]

well, i used Kent marine buffer once..... havn't had to use it since....

i don't think i need to use kalk cause my calcium tests at around 500-650 consistently (but i have a hard time seeing the purple to blue color change of the test solution- so i could be off by one or two formula multipliers) but i have almost nothing that would use calcium...

[wasabi]

i used to do the dump thing a couple years ago. since hooking both my systems up to seperate reactors, i havent added anything to the reef. i do use a cacium additive to boost cacium, maybe once every month. i have a fear of additives.

[AcK]

I never originally added anything, but I tried Seachem's Reef advantage Calcium (Ca++/Mg++/Sr++) and my pink encrusting algea more then doubled (in ~ 1 week). Definitely I was low on something (I had read that Mg++ could be limiting compound for pink algea

[dark horge]

It's difficult to give any kind of value-judgement on 'additives' since the value would be relative to individual tank conditions. Not every tank is going to need "mineral X" supplements.

Mostly, these 'additives' are intended to replenish depleted compounds and elements in a hobbyist reef aquarium, are they not?

It can be a nightmare trying to determine how much of mineral X is assimilated by living residents, or chelated/compounded and buried beyond reach by gravity. On the other sideof the coin, we cannot accurately measure how much of that same mineral is liberated by animal deaths, or (from precipitate) by the acidic secretions of microfauna, hour by hour.

Test kits can give an idea of the mineral's presence at the particular locality being tested ---and there's the rub. Mineral concentrations tend to vary on a gradient, depending on water movement and MANY other factors.

Bottom line for me is that it's mostly wild-heinied guesswork when it comes to determining dosage of these 'useful' additives.

Not all additives are useful.
Back in the late 80's someone noted Sr slightly-concentrated in the largely CaCO3 skeleta of certain stony corals. The popular (if careless) presumption was that Strontium (such an unusual material) was VITAL for calcification in stony corals.

Very few hobbyists paused to consider that Sr and Ca ions are quite similar on the atomic level. Those corals MIGHT not have found much difference between the two and just incorporated both into their skeleta. The problem with dosing Sr is that it's fairly toxic beyond a rather low concentration, and most of the additives (and their manufacturers' recommended doses) on the market at the time ensured concentrations in excess of NSW levels.

Not all additives are as specifically and directly harmful, but we have to remember that a lot of the materials being touted as 'depletable' in a hobbyist aquarium are naturally present in the sediment and rocky superstructure in a hobbyist tank. If we can presume Ca liberation in LR plenums and DSB's, the same acidic privilege has to be extended to other metals like last decades darling, Mg, as well as other vital minerals

I haven'ty even touched on the sometimes-silly obsession with SUPPRESSING or ELIMINATING certain elements in our tanks. P, Fe and N are made out to be villains when in truth they are vital to life. Then again, this is a thread about additives.

[galleon]

I keep it simple. Our systems only get dosed with laboratory-quality CaCl(sub)2 dissolved in RO/DI water, and NaHCO(sub)3/ NaCO(sub)3 in 8 : 1 ratio mixed together in RO/DI water.

[Reedman]

I currently use a 2 part calc/alk additive to maintain my balance in the tank. I use Kent's Turbo Calc to boost my calcium level when needed I think I will try dripping kalk.

Correct me if I am wrong, with the kalk drip, I need to get my ca and alk at the level I want then start the kalk drip process to maintain that level. Is this right??

-Reed

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by dark horge
...Bottom line for me is that it's mostly wild-heinied guesswork when it comes to determining dosage of these 'useful' additives.

The word "cockamamie" comes to mind... ...forgive me if I don't check the spelling...

Bottom line in terms of most trace elements for closed systems is that a 10% water change every 2 weeks with a good synthetic SW mix (IO, etc) is really all that aquaria really need at this point. Kalk, food, RO/DI, light, (Oh yeah, Selcon or some HUFA additive in the food) is pretty much it. There is no magic potion outside the use of patience and the application of consistency (especially re: water parameters) that will improve on growth rates or survivability.

Just my experience over the last 20 years, I have seen a lot of folks suggest (some even demand) that trace elements are a mandatory requirement for sustaining reef aquaria. This may have been true when IO was little more than a mix of the conservative elements. At that time there were few that could successfully collect and keep corals alive much more than a day's drive from the ocean. Most of the really successful folks with reefs in the late 80's/early 90's had access to at least once a week large changes of tank water for real ocean water (heh, some interesting hitch hikers there!). The advent of more successful synthetic mixes, adequate intense lighting, skimming and the Internet have been the four biggest improvements in the ability to have captive reefs survive, even to thrive as closed aquaria systems. Improvements in husbandry skills and the availability of forums to teach those skills (bbs's like TRT) have made reefkeeping possible for people without a degree in marine biology (or at least a driving obscession about the reefs )

The great thing about trace elements is that they are available in ocean water (and synthetic mixes) to the point that they are not limiting factors to growth and development in the period of a few weeks, so that regular water changes replenishes them without worrying about exceeding those levels found in nature (thus avoiding potential toxicities from OD's)

My 2 cents US...

[ShirleyM]

120G Reef: I do what Reedman is doing, plus drip Kalk. And water changes.

Mini and fowlr: not much, just water changes and check pH every now and then with probe.

Sometimes, if I think of it, I add 4 drops Lugol's Iodine to the 120G on the weekends.

Chris, can you give us the names of the chems you listed, please?

Thanks,
Shirley

[Spanky]

Keep your eye on Sr guys. There's some hard evidence coming in that's it's tied to reproduction and more a case of it's being laid down in reproduction cycles as opposed to temperature.

[dark horge]

Originally posted by Spanky
Keep your eye on Sr guys. There's some hard evidence coming in that's it's tied to reproduction and more a case of it's being laid down in reproduction cycles as opposed to temperature.

(To pre-empt any abuse of your post... )

The real question is...
Would even hard proof of the above quote warrant supplementary doses of Sr into a hobbyist tank?

We can easily rattle off over half a dozen seemingly-exotic elements that are involved in various aspects of scleractinian metabolism, but there have to be two questions to be answered before anyone starts hawking/dosing a particular "additive".

Is it lacking in the system?
How much is an OD?



BTW, Tom, IIRC 'cockamamie' is indeed the proper spelling

[Spanky]

Sorry, I was just thinking out loud and did not mean to suggest adding it to anyone's tanks. It's just a tid-bit of information about Sr.

[CAT]

I use Seachem. Reef complete, Reef builder, Reef calcium. Don't know about everybody else, but my alk is down with I.0. salt if I don't - something in there must be eating it...

[reefcam]

Hmmm.. Interesting stuff on the Sr..

I've tested my tank for Sr with the Salifert test kit and my tank shows < 1 - 3, what ever that means. But it recommends somewhere around 9. Don't quote me, I have to go back and look, but basically it's telling me to add Sr. So I have been doing half the recommended dosage each week to raise it. I have notice most of my corals coloring up, but I don't know if it is due to the addition of Sr. I have a Calc Reactor and don't dose any other additives regularly. Just when the parameters are out of wack.

The reason why I started dosing Sr is because I've notice my corals in the prop tank turn brown when in my display tank they are blue, orange, red, green, purple, etc. I'm not sure if Sr is part of the reason, but I thought I start there. The prop tanks have 650W over 50 gallons. Too much light? But then I would think the corals will bleech and not turn brown or loose their coloration. Most of the corals are brown, tan, and light green.

I don't normally like to add any additives except for water changes, but then what do I know. Depending on which book you read, it'll tell you one thing or another. I like to listen to experiences versus this is how things should work.

[galleon]

Shirley, not sure, will have to check tomorrow. The CaCl2 can be ordered through Aquatic Ecosystems, and I'm pretty sure the bicarb and carb are Sigma company.