Bi- weeky Discussion Fish

[tims]

Fish.

We all have them, they range from very small to pretty Big.

what are some of the things we need to do to have them in a reef tank?

Are there pro's and cons to having them?

[Loverotties]

All my fish have a purpose.from my little a gobbie (to help churn the sand ) to the Purple tang that eats all kind of Algea to keep it in check.Even the inverts have a purpose.

[VWD]

I like having them in the tank but find I alway have very few. they add alot to the bio load of the tank and make keeping things inline. I started out years back FO tanks and have wanted to do one again. and not to mention some people can't seem to get into a coral tank but can with nice fish in them. My wife is one that likes the fish and just lately is getting into the corals and inverts.

[wharyat]

Well;

Pros: Bright, flashy colors; control algae; control pests.
Cons: everything, not really; but in a reef it seems antiproductive to add nutrients as in food, just to be taken right back out via skimmer, wc's, or other mechanical/chemical means.

I'm thinking of an agressive FO soon, either with a pack of triggers or piranhas; I'm leaning towards piranhas ATM.

[Viv]

When I first started I added a damsel to start cycling, Tang for algae control. Last was the blennies for their comedic interactions. They aid and add, pleasure and purpose...gotta love em!

[tims]

When I first started I added a damsel to start cycling

Why is this a good thing or a Bad thing!

[skeety]

as an official member of the I HATE DAMSELS club, I find there are no good things about this...and lots of bad things.

Some recommend it for a kick-start to your cycle...but in my opinion, adding LR is plenty to kick off the cycle, and one fish, I don't think, will add much more to that. Patience is key in this hobby (even if we ALL struggle with it from time to time), so adding a damsel to save you a week or two in the end, just isn't worth it.

Bad things? Damsels, BY NATURE, are aggressive and territorial. And if added by themselves, this is exaggerated by a lot. So IMO, adding just a damsel, at the get go, is the worst thing you can do. Unless he's the only fish you ever plan on adding.

I, as well as many others on here, have spent COUNTLESS hours trying to get out that ******* damsel, who we more than likely added for this very reason. Why are we removing him? So he'll stop beating up on the prize fish we'd been waiting months to keep, and finally just added.

just my 2 cents..and it's pretty biased, as I TRULY, DEEPLY, SINCERELY, loath damsels ('cept clowns)!

[skeety]

As for fish...there are those on here to seem to be totally against them in a reef. But not sure they realize/remember that the FISH are WHY they got into this hobby in the first place (more than likely).

Granted...it's easier to have great sucess keeping corals if you don't have any fish. But most of us are in this hobby cause we enjoy challanges. And again, IMO, for me to call myself a TRUE advanced reef keeper, I would think I would have to have the skills to keep a great reef tank that has both corals AND fish. The hardest of challanges in this hobby!

The intrigue of a reef is the diversity of life. The corals, the fish, the inverts, the algae..etc.

I love the corals, but I love the fish just as much (but differently).

Corals are amazing to watch. Full of color, and while most are a stuck where they are, and aren't very mobile..they are loaded with life. And if you watch long enough, they can be full of movement and wonder.

But fish....ahhhh...the personality of fish! So many different kinds. Some funny, some not so fun (see my previous post). But IMO, all are beautiful, and equally amazing creatures.

And as other's stated on here...most serve a purpose that' s more than just eye candy. Some keep your algae under control, some keep pests off your inhabitants, some keep the bad critters under control. So you can have something fun to watch, AND have a good reason for having that fish.

anyways....that's just my thoughts on the Fish aspect.

[tims]

I HATE DAMSELS club

what about chromis?

What happens to your fish during your tanks cyckling?

Are there other means to help the cyckling alone instead of the " toss in the cheap damsel"?

[Cosine]

Originally Posted by tims

what about chromis? Supposed to be peaceful... I plan on adding a school when I get the big tank setup

What happens to your fish during your tanks cyckling? They can be harmed by having their gills burned by ammonia... or is in the nitrite or both that burns them?

Are there other means to help the cyckling alone instead of the " toss in the cheap damsel"?
Like it was said I like the just put LR in and let it do its thing approach... but you can add a raw cocktail shrimp or also I believe there are some products available... but to me the latter seems to be just a waste of $$ and in this hobby I like to avoid extra expenses.

[Twitterbait]

I would expect that if you hate the Damsels so much then adding them to your tank in the beginning would be the perfect thing to do. It burns their gills and generally tortures them while the tank cycles. like clipping a dobermans ears, no wonder the little buggers have anger management issues . Bad mojo IMO.

I think that fish are important and yes even the detrius that is left behind . In the ocean you always have silt, dust, and decaying matter floating around all the time. In a closed system i feel it is important to allow some to remain in the system in order to imitate nature. The most colorful moments i have ever seen in my tank have been after a dust storm. the corals do a little feeding from that dust, and the storm allows the skimmer to pick some of it up.

As far as the function of the fish i would say that 80% of the fish we buy have a specific function that we buy them for. Most of these functions have to do with cleaning something or somebody off. I find it funny when somebody is willing to spend $60+ bucks on a beautiful fish but starts to cry over a $17 cleaner shrimp that will, in the end, keep that fish alive fo so much longer. Of course we all have a beauty in mind that we want strictly for viewing pleasure (then you get them and find that they LOOOOOVE to eat your $600 coral and NOTHING ELSE ).

I am of the school that in order to maintain a good reef setup you should be willing to go for a crew of fish that are there to strictly maintain the coral and nothing else . if you want to go into the angels or butterflies then you should build a tank that is specifically for them including some corals that you are willing to sacrifice for their eating pleasure. In other words... pick the main focus of your tank and build everything around it. if you follow that pattern then i have found that you will have a lot more success with your tank favorite and less frustration over what it tears apart as it moves stuff around and eats .

maybe a little more than .02 so well say thats an even buck

[salt creepette]

to answer the question of chromis being damsels, they are supposed to be the least aggressive. I have had green chromis but not used for the cycle, but because I specifically wanted a group of three. they have a beautiful color and i observed no aggression. other ways to kickstart a cycle is to throw in a single table shrimp and let it decay, providing ammonia to feed bacteria. people also recommend putting in a piece of lr or some live sand from a disease-free established system to provide bacteria.

there have been many beautiful mean fish (i.e. dottybacks) that I have introduced and regretted it. I now add peaceful only fish and I dont do anything I might regret (i want a bicolor blenny so bad but i dont want it to bully shyer fish or bite my corals) later. for me, a reef tank is incomplete without fish and not nearly as fun to watch. but there is something sorely lacking in the fo or fowlr setups too. jmo.

[Viv]

Contrary to popular belief, that damsel was the one and only fish added to a 20 gal tank to start the seeding process of the filter...it was then moved to a 4oo gal tank along with the water to start the process in that tank...the damsel was quite a joy, darting around the rocks and keeping the other fish moving, it never nipped or went after the other fish, just swam fast around the tank, it lived about 6years and was my first fish, had a purpose and gave lots of pleasure.
Maybe its how people use animals from the ocean (knowing that the environment will kill them-like placing a Tang in a 10 gal. tank) is what we don't like. I think if properly utilized all these animals can live and be useful...isn't that why you read all about the care of them before you buy?

[tims]

Originally Posted by Viv

...isn't that why you read all about the care of them before you buy?

That is what we hope everyone would do.. but does nto happen all the time


You mentioned the ocean, fish and tangs....




Is captive raised fish better then Wild caught? and yes... you must tell me why

[Viv]

ooo, good question, like this thread! My thought is that captive raised is probably better in that we save our oceans (this probably goes for corals, too) but I wonder what kind of wild punch is missing...ie like a raised bear in the zoo, missing some instincts, but then again, saving the species. I guess not too much of a problem, since its all going into a "captive tank". But really don't know, just an opinion.