Bi-Weekly Discussion of the Week: Refugiums!!

[Geoff]

This should be a fun one. We have done this a while ago, but I think a lot has changed since the last time we talked about these.

What are these used for?
Do they do any good?
What is one?
How do you plumb one?

Wow the list goes on.

G~

[xhoosier]

I have never had one but was told that they were good for reducing the nitrates in the water so I looking at setting one up in my sump. Like other things ,there a different opinions on what substrate to use and how big they should be. Not sure what to do on these two point but they look kind of cool.

see ya,
mark

[kwjones]

1. Multi purpose. Some use them to grow a food source for the animals in the main tank, some use them for nutrient export.

2. Depending on the purpose they are used for, results will vary.

They can be gravity fed (higher than the display tank with water pumped up to it. Excess water drains back down to the display tank.)

They can also be in a sump. (Water drains from the display tank and is pumped back to the display after going through the refugium.) Chances are with this one, any pods are going to be chopped up before they make it to the display tank.

They can also hang on the back of the display tank, or be inside the display tank.

I'm still not sure/sold on the idea of using them for nutrient export.

I do know they can be useful for growing pod poplulations and feeding the main tank. The name itself (refuge) means a safe place. Basically anything you don't want destroyed by predation should be in it.

[yousuredo]

so is there a size recomendation ?
say, 'so big' for 'so many gallons' kind of thing.......

my 29gl. listed bellow is divided into three department with about 10gl's for the fuge, would that be enough for my 75gl.

[tims]

okay i want play devils advocate.........

if a refuge is good growing things you want to have in your tank..( ithinking pods here) then how do you get them in to the main tank?

[dgasmd]

Well, let me see what little I know about them after having one.

*Good for nitrates export mostly
*Not good at all for phosphate export
*Would never set one up with substrate
*the pod growing issue is such a mute point unless you either have not LR whatsoever in the main tank or have killed every single one.
*gravity or no gravity is a mute point too
*they produce gargantuous amounts of detritus that need vaccuming frequently to avoid them turning into a putrefaction factory
*just about any bulb/wattage works just the same
*IMHO, they are a waste of time since the benefit does not justify the extra work needed to have them work properly.
*instead of having a typical refugium, I would just add LR to a glass/acrylic container (so I can see inside) and keep it in the dark to grow filter feeders. Likely to do more for true export, but I have no scientific evidence for this either.

[kwjones]

The area I had set aside in my sump for a refugium has been turned into a low flow settling tank...I can't believe how much junk accumulates down there. It's bare bottom with no rock and I still have pods living in it. I may have to put a small pile of rubble in there for them.

[kwjones]

Originally Posted by tims

okay i want play devils advocate.........

if a refuge is good growing things you want to have in your tank..( ithinking pods here) then how do you get them in to the main tank?

Usually if you're growing macro like cheato, just take a wad out of the fuge and swish it around in the display tank...dunno because I really don't have a fuge anymore.

I think the theory behind the gravity fed fuge works better for this. If you're actively pumping water into the fuge, the water level is controled by where you have the bulkhead that has the gravity drain back to the display tank. For nutrient export, the idea is to move the water slowly so the macro has time to take in the nutrients. By having the water drain back to the display tank, the idea is that pods that get too close to the bulkhead fitting are going to get sucked into the display tank without getting chopped up by a pump or powerhead impeller.

[Geoff]

yousuredo-that pump setup on the Little Giant is a little risky. if the water level were to drop in the tank you would burn up all of your motors. closed loops are plumbed into the main body of water. you have yours setup as an open loop system.

G~

[Geoff]

OK, lots of good points being made. lets try and focus now.

lets talk about the nutrient export reason for keeping a refugium. how is this possible?

G~

[kwjones]

Macro algae binds up nutrients when it grows. Trim the macro and throw the excess away or give it to a fellow reefer so they can grow some macro if the want to.

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by kwjones

Macro algae binds up nutrients when it grows. Trim the macro and throw the excess away or give it to a fellow reefer so they can grow some macro if the want to.

so you can give your fellow reefers your unwanted nutrients.

what can you grow in your refugium to remove unwanted nutrients.

G~

[kwjones]

People I know in my club grow Cheato, various forms of Calurpa (not sure if I'm spelling that right). The current club president has around 5 types of macro growing in his 10 gallon fuge. Every two weeks he prunes it back to just under half the height of the 10 gallon tank, and two weeks later, it's back up to the water level. He bags it in ziploc bags and brings it to the meetings if anyone needs some macro to start a refugium with. If no one takes it, it goes in the trash.

[kwjones]

I took a bag of it. I must be doing something wrong because I can't get it to grow.

[Geoff]

Originally Posted by kwjones

I took a bag of it. I must be doing something wrong because I can't get it to grow.

ohhh, contrare!! you could be doing everything right.

G~