Bi-Weekly Discussion of the Week: Cyano!!

[Geoff]

there has been a lot of talk about cyano out there. lets see if we can demistify some of this.

G~

[rogerthmyers]

Yes, please do ....I can't get rid of it!!!

[kwjones]

Cyano can produce their own nitrogen source from the atmosphere, but they also need phosphates which they can't produce on their own.

[Geoff]

what is cyano? why is it able to spread so fast?

kwjones-what else does it need?

G~

[kwjones]

HUH...well this is interesting...

From http://www.rvt.com/~lucas/school/cyano.html

"Photosynthesis plays a large and important role in the reproduction and growth of Cyanobacteria. The wavelength of the light available determines what form of Cyanobacteria will grow. Other nutrients also play a role in growth and reproduction. Dissolved organic carbon, as well as phosphate and iron, are important factors. "

I knew it needed light, but I didn't know wavelength determined what form of cyano you got.

Kevin

And my fighting conch is absolutely worthless for eating cyano...

[jeepjon]

well, I've been battling it severely...they say using some of that Phos-Ban stuff for a while to limit your phosphates down to nothing (even if you don't have too high phosphates, the PhosBan supposedly takes out all the inorganic phosphate in the water). If you siphon the cyano off, then use phosban, and leave your lights off for a day, that supposedly can kick the butt of a bad outbreak...at least temporarily...I just started using the Phosban...we'll see if that technique works.

[kwjones]

Most common responses from other people for cyano battle:

1. Add more water flow.
2. Decrease feeding.
3. Increase water changes.
4. Manually remove it.
5. Check nitrate and phosphate levels.
6. Change your lights, they're too old.
7. Skim heavily.
8. Use that chemi-pure/clean stuff. (Not my favorite answer)
9. Decrease your lighing period.
10. Add a couple of (Insert animal name here)...it'll clean it up over night. (Yeah...sure it will)

The list goes on and on...

Kevin

[Geoff]

flow is a great way to keep the bacteria from gaining a foothold. this does a couple of things. keeps it from looking ugly, but more importantly it allows it to be taken out by the skimmer.

when battling cyano it is important to know what it needs in order to get rid of it "correctly". i mean "correctly" by not using an anitbiotic to kill it. these can cause big problems in a short amount of time.

we know what it needs to be there. which of those sources are we able to control? which do we not want to change?

G~

[kwjones]

Well, I think we can control all of the sources to some extent, except for it being able to get it's own nitrogen source.

I had some pretty big cyano mats covering my sand and was starting to cover the bottom of my LR. Here's what I tried...

1. I started feeding less. Not a huge noticeable difference.
2. I started feeding less often. Again, not a big difference, but my fish started nipping my hands and arms if I had to get in the tank to flip a snail over.
3. I tried the chemical route after a month and a half. I worked great for about 2 days, then the cyano was back, so I gave up on the chemicals.
4. I manually removed it every time I did a water change. It just kept coming back.

These are the things that I have done recently and have seen improvement...
1. I replaced my 9 month old NO lights.
2. I skimmed wet...since I've cleaned the injection port on my remora pro, I have to empty my collection cup every day. It's not dark tea colored, but it's working.
3. I started blowing my rocks off every day with a turkey baster or powerhead. I would also cause sand storms by blowing the surface of the sand where the detritus would collect.
4. I switched from weekly 10% water changes to weekly 15% water changes. (Blow off rocks, siphon water, siphon the sand bed where the detritus is sitting, replace water)
5. I started rinsing my nori and thawing out my frozen food in RO/DI before I fed.
6. I increased my flow from 11x's turnover to about 15x's turnover by adding another powerhead.
7. I took the floss out of my canister filter and ran it empty.
8. I started using a phosphate remover and carbon in my skimmer return box.
9. I got my pH, Alk and calcium levels where they need to be...they were pretty low.
10. I added macro algae. I have to keep it in a acrylic "Critter Keeper" box to keep some of the fish from eating it until I can get my fuge installed.
11. I reduced my lighting period from 11 hours to 4 hours a day...FOWLR so it's not a big deal.

I know once I started cleaning the sand my cyano carpet started going away. Now I just have a light rust color covering some of my low flow areas. They get siphoned every weekend.

[Geoff]

those are some great suggestions!

light is the source that we would rather not limit in our systems. in order to not do this we will need to remove as much of the other food sources as possible. skimming wet is a huge help. this allows more organics to be removed. removing all of the detritus is prolly the biggest thing you can do. this means both the detritus on the sand, but also in the rocks and in any mechanical filtration you may have.

a good thing about cyano is that i likes to be as close to its food source as possible. so if you have matts in one area, than that is where you have an accumulation problem.

OK, lets talk substrates.

no this is not going to be a Spanky-Tom battle.

G~

[kwjones]

LOL...any substrate that collects detritus will help fuel cyano if you can't clean it thoroughly enough.

My first substrate was crushed coral with lots of snail shells. I had less problems with it than I have with sand because I could keep more flow on the bottom of the tank.

[Geoff]

flow and sand beds is an interesting animal. a tank with only a sand bed will not need much flow in order to keep the sandbed clean. detritus is very light, not much is needed to kick it up into the water column. it is when we add rocks that the problems start showing up. when rocks are added they create eddies which slow the water down significantly allowing organics to collect and fall out of the water column.

with CC you can cheat around this by adding a lot more flow due to the heavier weight of the sand. you can also plunge clean the CC if it is done regularly enough.

G~

[Geoff]

OK, all you readers out there.

how many of you have cyano now or have had it in the past?

G~

[kwjones]

Cyano...it's like a three stone anniversary diamond ring...past, present and future.

Yeah...c'mon...I Geoff and I can't be the only ones with cyano. Or, maybe we are?

[rogerthmyers]

me me me me me me me me