Bi-Weekly Discussion of the Week: Clean-Up Crews

[Geoff]

what makes the best clean-up crews. snails, cukes, crabs, hermits, nudi's, urchins, stars, and fish. which do you all like the best? which should be avoided?

G~

[LittleFishBoy]

When i had my 135 Gallon going, i had about 100 hermit crabs and about 135 snails, along with 5 big black cukes, serpent stars galore and they did a GREAT job at cleaning up. I also like the Kole tang. For mine, would eat ALL of the brown algae produced by diatoms in no time. He was quite the asset. Although I have never had one, i have done some reading on Nudi's and a lettuce nudi would be good to control the hair algae as well. IMO most nudis should not be introduced into the aquarium because there either not reef friendly, or everything in your water must be perfect. I have also read that they dont last long in captivity. Im not too fond of urchins, just because ive put my hand in the tank, and have not paid attention and poked myself by touching the urchin. OUCH!! Anyway, just my experience, and my crew did a great job of keeping my tank almost squeeky clean. 2 thumbs up for them.

[Geoff]

i have only mulloscs in my tank for the cleanup crews. i have margarita, nassarious, bumblebee, astrea, and cerith snails for the bulk of the cleanup. i also have a sea hare for any wayward hair algae that shows up. i have a Kole tang for the diatoms. both a S. magnificus and S. virgatus for the remaining algae that may show up. i also have a fighting conch that motors around and eats what ever it needs to. i had two others but apparantly my tank can only support one. it has just about doubled its size in 6 months.

i do not trust crabs. i am thinking of getting a cuke for the SB, but still need more research. also am looking at the different sand sifting stars. also trying to figure out exactly what they eat out of the SB.

lots of research, not enough time.

G~

[kram138]

I have turbo snails, bumble bee snails and margarita snails. The most efficient by far are the tubo snails due mainly to their size

I also have five emerald crabs that I think do a magnificent job with bubble algae if it pops up. They are pretty aggressive though and have killed a coral banded shrimp in the past. If I were to do it again, I don't think I would add them to the tank.

Along with those crabs, I have five zebra hermits. They are voracious eaters and do a great job on hair algae. But, again, they are extremly aggressive and kill every other type of hermit crab that goes into the tank. They also kill snails if there are no empty shells for them to upgrade to. I would not ever put them into another tank. I would take them out of this tank but I think I've created a good balance. Algae is minimal and nothing else has been killed for a while.

My favorite algae eater is my red sea urchin. When it cleans rocks algae does not come back. It takes most of the coralline algae off too but it grows back fast and usually thicker, and to me healthier because it is starting over fresh on fresh rock. I have always had an urchin and it has never caused any problems. (they make a darn good water quality indicator too. spines bent down, problem somewhere)

All in all I'm happy with my clean up crew. They keep the tank clean. I wouldn't recommend the combination I have for other people though. (except for the urchin)

[tdwyatt]

Heh! I'll let you folks know once I get the mollusk package in tomorrow. Keys critters is sending me a few hundred ceriths and astreas and about a dozen or so cukes (misc Holothurians, Atlantic spp.) I have a Diadema spp. urchin in the tank already, and I have been leaving the t-5 lights on 24/7 to encourage soma algal growth for the cleanup crew. This is going into a new DSB system with about 250 lbs LR, only thing really growing so far is a very fine layer of diatoms, nothing to really write home about, thinking of adding some tap water to start a diatom bloom (NOOOOOOO TOM, DON'T DO IT!!!!) The Live Rock has been stewing for about 3 months now, still sheds a small amount of detritus, but i have been siphoning it out (and the urchin has been scrubbing the biofilms off the rocks and some of the coralline as well). By the end of the week the MH's and VHO's will be firing up for some 2-hrs-a-day initializations for a week, then up an hour a day every 3 days until I am up to speed on the photoperiod. I may add some crabs at that point, but I am kind of like Geoff on this, I prefer systems without crabs. I am still pulling out crabs to go into the sump in the old system in Wellford from 6 years ago, some of the blue legs have gotten pretty big for hermits.

Heh~! Jerel is pushing me for pix, maybe today I'll post a few.

[yardboy]

Can everyone reassure me that a Diadema is okay for my reef. I caught one off Panama City while diving on a wreck and put it in my refugium. I placed it in the main tank for about 2 hours and got nervous that he'd eat up all my corraline and leave the hair and stuff alone.

[tdwyatt]

Yes, they will be quite beneficial to your system. I have had the one in this photograph for about a year now, I just moved it to the new reeftop system about a week ago, as it is getting too big for the prop system (shallow) and I did have a little incident where the tips of one of my Pocillipora spp. colonies had the tips grazed ever so slightly... I think that this was due to the fact that the urchin has gotten quite large and had pretty much cleaned all the easy places to eat (two in that system anyway)...

I have had them in many systems as a cleaner, they actually have promoted coralline coverage in my systems as they have grazed the biofilm down to the rock, and the corallines have colonized the places where there had been only brown or grey rock previously (almost follow in the tracks of the urchins.) Prior to the little incident with the Pocillipora, I have never had one do anything to any corals, and this was not an observed even in this occurrance.

They will do well.

[tdwyatt]

another specimen

[Geoff]

before, when my tank was mainly LPS i had several hitchhiker urchins. i must have had at least one in the tank for 7-8 years. they all seemed to die when they got to 2" across the center disc. it was like clockwork so i assume this was normal. i still have a pencil urchin that is going on 10 years with me! it is in the refugium right now because it was a little clumbsy with the new acro frags. it will get put back on display in one of Nikki's tanks. they are great at keeping the coraline going.

G~

[Geoff]

Cukes-what do they eat, are there any bad ones? i have heard the turd looking ones are least dangerous when they die.

G~

[Jimmer]

I have in my 55 a pretty good sized (4" across) sand sifting star, an Urchin like Tom has (the kind that looks like a shadow vessel) a few Turbos(more on them later) and a half dozen nassarious and a few bumblebees. I need to get more nassarious and bumblebees for sure and am planning on getting some Ceriths.

The Urchin has been good although he did eat a new colony of Xenia I bought a few weeks ago. One minute I was watching him strolling up to the frag the next I was screaming at him as he gobbled up the entire colony in one fell swoop. Thankfully he hasn't bothered my Pink stars or Zoas I bought at the same time.

The Turbos do a really good job on hair and diatoms...however...I have lost a couple over the past couple days because one thought he was Icarus and he got stuck too close to the lights...Ewwww baaaaaaaaad smell on that guy when I discovered him. The other one flopped over and fell prey to an overly enthusiastic cleaner shrimp.

I'm wondering as well what all the sifter eats out of the sandbed.

[SPC]

Originally posted by yardboy
I caught one off Panama City while diving on a wreck and put it in my refugium.

Just a heads up, yardboy, these urchins are illegal to harvest in Fla waters as they are being protected. Several years back there was an epidemic that killed most of these urchins, and the reefs, by what I read (and Spanky tells me) have had alot of problems with excessive algae growth. BTW, these are considered the best overall herbivore on the reef, again from what I have read.

Originally posted by Geoff
Cukes-what do they eat, are there any bad ones? i have heard the turd looking ones are least dangerous when they die.

G~

Mine ingests the sand itself, Geoff, and then excretes white sand pellets. As far as I know, they are actually stripping the bacteria from the sand, and I would imagine any other organics associated with it (detritus etc...).

I have had a turd cucumber (Atlantic) for about 3 years now. He has grown from about 2" to close to 16" in that time. Because of this growth, I would recommend that people take this into consideration as far as tank size is concerned. I think Dr Ron recommends 3 sq ft of unencumbered sand area/ animal.

You are also correct about these species not being very toxic, Geoff, the filter feeders are the ones to watch out for.

Lets see, my clean up animals are:

1. Turd Cucumber (great animal for a sand bed IMO)

2. Astrea's (good all around herbivore)

3. Mexican Turbo (my favorite of the snails. Large snail that can eat hair type algaes as well as diatoms).

4. Two carrier urchins (great all around algae eater, will eat coraline at a fairly rapid pace. When cleaning rocks, these urchins actually take a thin layer of the rock off, this is why IMO they are the best for hair, and possibly bryopsis algae).

5. Cerith snails (good snail that concentrates mostly on the sand bed but will also climb. Eats algae of the film variety and I suppose maybe some detritus from the sand).

6. Nerite snails (pretty shell but spends quite a bit of time out of the water due to their intertidal habitat in nature. Have found a few dead on the floor next to the tank. Fair at eating film algae, but no great shakes IMO).

7. Nassarious snails (great sand bed snail that will bury itself with snout extended as it waits to smell food. Keeps the top 1/2" of sand stirred nicely. Carnivores. Prolific egg layers though I have never seen any young survive to recognizable size due to their larval stage).

8. Mithrax sculptus crabs (the famous valonia eater which I have yet to see eat even one in my tank . Mine have been in my tank for about 2 years now and have grown to about a 50 cent piece across their carapace. Very large claws that are flat on the ends for picking algae off surfaces. Very, very strong, can turn over objects much larger than itself although mine don't very often. Spend the day picking at rocks, I have never seen them attach any fish in my tank. Have not seen them bother corals, but will occasionally walk across a coral. They will fight amongst themselves).

9. Peppermint shrimp (I have these mostly for any aptasia that might pop up, but also like how they look. Have never seen them bother any animal in my tank, except for aptasia, which I have witnessed them eating. They carry eggs quite often, but no small shrimp due to the long larval stage).

10. Miniature brittle stars ( received these with my sand bed kit from IPSF. Started out with about 5, now have hundreds after 3 years. Great addtition to a reef tank IMO, they are carnivores that will eat left over food, detritus, etc...)

11. Red legged hermits ( I have about 8 of these and find them to be non aggressive towards snails. These hermits have yellow eye stalks, as compared to a couple other species that look similar but are more aggresive. I have never seen them bother corals. I have them in my tank mostly because I just love hermit crabs and think they make a reef tank look more natural).
Steve

[yardboy]

Thanks for the headsup, guess I incriminated myself on that one. Not to worried as a through reading of the 2003 Florida fishing regulations lists urchins as "marine life" subject to collection under a special commercial license, which I don't have so I'm still not safe, but better than them being endangered and me collecting one. The were very abundant on the dive sites I went too, so maybe their epidemic is over? Either way, it pretty much blows my fanasy of collecting about 5000 of them and selling for $10 a piece!
By the way, on my last dives overseas my wife was crazy for Blue linckias. Are they any good for putting in a tank, as I've seen them for sale occasionaly?

[yardboy]

Oh yeah, when you say carrier urchin, are you talking about this character? He is very clmsy in my refugium, and if he's so great I better nail down everything be fore I put him in the main tank.

[Casey]

Yardboy you stop stripping Panamas reef,or I will make you drink skimmer water