DSB Questions

[balakoth]

I know im going to get hounded for this but People mention that holding water quality conditions is easier with a Deep Sand Bed.

How HARD is it exactly to maintain these qualities without a Sand Bed. My Local Reef Store suggests strongly against Deep Sand Beds.

Personally I think they look ugly, detract from the tank and use up a good 10 percent of the space I dont have in a 50 gallon

Basically what Im asking is, is it giong to kill me if I dont use a Deep Sand Bed? I sure hope not heh.

Thanks

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by balakoth
People mention that holding water quality conditions is easier with a Deep Sand Bed... ...Basically what Im asking is, is it giong to kill me if I dont use a Deep Sand Bed? I sure hope not heh

No, it isn't going to kill you nor your critters to not use a dsb.

You will need to do a religious once a week 10% water change with your system from day one to keep the nitrates down. This and use a refugium with either a reverse photoperiod or a 24/7 lights on to keep a macroalgae harvest going. This will uptake the nitrate from the water column, which you will be able to remove from the system while harvesting the biomass of the macroalgae. Alternately, you could use an algal turf scrubber to remove the nitrates from the system, although this almost always requires a carbon filter 24/7 to remove the yellow tint from the water column, along with aggressive skimming.

You could even get away with just skimming and 10% water changes if you stick to mostly corals and keep your bioload low in terms of fishes. This will reduce the amount of nitrogen cycle substances that your bioballs will have to process into nitrate, but will still require export of the nitrate either via water changes or some other harvesting method like xenia or (God forbid) Aiptasia...

In addition, your system will require every 3 day rinsing and cleaning of any particulate filter media, as well as siphoning the detritus that accumulates on the (bare) bottom of your aquarium. Once a week you will need to have a "storm" in the tank to remove detritus from the rock and the corals (a powerhead or a large turkey baster works well for this. Change/rinse your particulate filters about 2 hours after the storm.

All the above methods have their advantages and their drawbacks, the greatest drawback of which is the amount of time and labor required to perform these methods, in addition to the possibility that your export/harvesting method may crash, and also requires some major tending of its own.

Or you could put 12 to 15 cm of sugar-sized sand into the bottom of your tank, either aragonite (preferred) or silica (OK) and seed it with the necessary benthos to make this a DSB project. And forget it. No maintenance,

Best left undisturbed.

I think it is time for your LFS to get out of the early 90's and step into the present. Don't take my word on it, spend some time reading about the current successful aquaria systems. I doubt that you'll be able to get your LFS dealer to do this (he obviously doesn't keep up), but suggest he buy (what is now becoming a dated text as well) John Tulloch's or Bob Fenner's books.

Hope this helps. Even though these books listed above are good books, their thinking is becoming a little dated as well. I hope you'll consider that the benthos is an integral part of the biotope you are constructing, as important as the water and the live rock, but then again, that is just my opinion

[Hermit]

Tom,

I'm a little confused. I thought a DSB should be ~4" deep, yet you say 12-15 cm. If I remember right this is only about a 1/2". Which is better?

Kris

[Doug1]

The old style Berlin Systems that used no substrate relied on water changes and HEAVY SKIMMING to remove organics before they got a chance to produce ammonia>nitrite>nitrate.
As Tom mentioned a properly setup and innoculated sand bed will provide the biological means to deal with nitrate as well ass other chemical cycles, add to the plankton levels, feeding corals and overall give a more diverse ecosystem that wont rely so much on mechanical equipment. More work initially to set up, but more self sustaining and trouble free in the long run IME. However as always there are several ways to run a reef tank and it behooves one to study carefully and weigh the pros and cons before setting out. It is cheaper to do it right the first time

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by Hermit
Tom,

I'm a little confused. I thought a DSB should be ~4" deep, yet you say 12-15 cm. If I remember right this is only about a 1/2"...

1 inch = 2.54 cm

[FishDaddy]

Balakoth,
I personally prefer a DSB for the reasons stated by Tom and Doug. Besides the value of the DSB as a biofilter, the variety of critters that inhabit the sand are interesting in their own right. I've got two tanks with sandbeds and wouldn't have them any other way.

My only personal experience with a bare bottomed tank is with a hospital tank. Believe me, one little clown in a 15 gal gets messy after a few days! I'd much rather have that fish poop and detritus being consumed by the DSB biofilter than have to suck it out with a turkey baster or siphon every few days!!!
Dick

[Jimbo]

You can have a successful tank without a dsb. You will need to remove deitris by siphoning it out and more live rock to denitrify your system. You won't be able to feed as often as with a dsb and growth may be slower for your inhabitants, a very efficient skimmer is needed. I have seen many nice tanks without any substrate, as a matter of fact most LFS's in my area don't use sandbeds. You talk about more space without out a dsb, but with more lr you will still have less space to some degree.

Hope this helps

[Doug1]

Personal observation after 25+ yrs playing with SW cratures.
LFS as a rule tend to stick with what works for them. A lot of places still use and swear by undergravel filters. More progressive shops may use bare bottom Berlin style tanks(easy to clean) and some bolder ones may even advocate plenum setups. As more shop owners and SW techs become aware of the tremendous amount of data available on line, we are starting to see more DSB and or refugia setups being used and advocated. All of these methods will support animals esp on a short term, in and out basis, but the setup used in a shop may or may not work out at home for a number of reasons. I believe that alot of shop owners who have been around a while stick to a method that works, because A: its expensive to constantly redo tanks, esp large ones, and B: If you are at the shop 18 hrs aday 7 days a week, its hard to putin the time surfing the reef boards and keeping up with the latest trend.
I suggest next time you are at your shop work the net and reef boards into the conversation and see what response you get. IF the answer is something to the effect that you cant believe all that stuff, I personally would start looking for a new shop to deal with. We do have people on this board(as well as the rest who are involved in LFS) that are willing to keep up and try to do a good job. The majority are hobbiest's with nothing to sell you and nothing to profit from recommendations. Usually been there done that and are willing to help people avoid common pitfalls. To do a reef right is not cheap at best but so many people waste so much $ from bad advice, and the needless loss of livestock gives the hobby as a whole a black eye
(steps down fron soapbox)