Dsb issues Arising

[Casey]

Ok guys whats all this new stuff im hearing about not using a DSB
has there been some new studies I dont know about? Im hearing more and more not to use a DSB. Anyone know anything? Casey

[snazlord]

I second that question. I'm new here, just thinking about setting up my first reef tank (by converting my current FO with UGF tank), been reading TRT and other boards like a fiend, reading all the articles I can find about plenums and DSBs, etc, and finally decided that a DSB was the way to go.

Now suddenly I'm hearing everyone say not to use DSBs.

what gives?

[Stang69]

Only reason I may not use one in the next tank is because of the flow rate I want to get going but otherwise Yes I would use one again


Jeff

[grazzit]

Hey Casey do you happen to have a link to an article talking about this?

[Geoff]

DSB's are a curious beast. i have one in my tank. i like it. all of the extra critters and stuff is way cool.

the detritus issue is its big downfall. because of this issue i spend all day yesterday opening up my rockwok to get more flow down to the DSB to keep the detritus in suspension. this is the one piece of information i wish i had known before going with the DSB.

i am able to have around 1400gph in my 125 with a DSB. i actually plan on another mag 12 for the other side real soon so that will bump up my flow to over 2600gph on occasion.

DSB are a good thing to have somewhere in a system. whether or not it is in the display is the real question. remote DSB's seem to be the more prefered choice now. this allows you to change out the sand every year or so to extract toxins. the main drawback to this, and it is a big one is the amount of room the entire system will now take up. another sump for DSB to plumb into the system.

HTH,

G~

[Doug1]

I am kinda going with Geoff on this one, I have a dsb and I like it, I think whats happening now is that the first wave is getting a little age on them some of the shortcomings are starting to show up.
I still think that a well established DSB properly maintained is a valid tool to keeping a reef. Like everthing else in reefing there is no simple answer to whats the proper way . Its gonna varie with the setup IMO

[Minnreefer]

We moved the thread http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...153#post118153 that talks about DSB' and their problems to our new "in depth" area We just removed our DSB but we have had some of the sand in it from 5 years ago so we think that was and is part of our tank problems.

HTH

Jon

[mojoreef]

I dont think what is coming up now is really new stuff on DSD's. But in fact a confirmations of possible problems that were brought up when they first came out. The concept of a DSB is a fairly sound one when used for the denitrification of our tanks. The problem is that the pitfalls of this system were not discussed and/or shown when it was promoted.

The main problem with sand beds is the misunderstanding that somehow allditerious is processed in the actions of DSB. This is just not true. and a large amount of diterious is left with in the bed. This build up is on a clock and will reach a point that when it becomes saturated with the diterious and the things that come along with that diterious, you will begin to see downfalls in the life and health of your tank.
As alwayy the best bet to avoid build up is the removal of the material that is building up. In this case it is diterious and the compounds that are assoc. with it. Now in tanks with only a small amount of substraight it is easy to clean out the diterious with a simple maintenance schedule of vacuuming. In the case of the DSB it becomes a little more of a task (to say the least), with a DSB in the main display it comes with all sorts of headaches and side effects. The use of remote beds come with the same problems, however it is much easier to cut them off the main system while perform these tasks.

The main problem being with DSB's as wih alot of things in this hobby, is that when it was promoted (and was making money for folks) they failed to tell the whole story and sold it as yet another miricle one thing fixes it all type of filtration system.

Mike

[sessydude]

When you refer to Deep Sand Beds........How deep are we discussing here ? Most people I have seen are suggesting around 3 to 4 inches. Is this considered deep ? I have also seen 7 or 8 or even 9.

Also, when removing the detritus from these beds are we not removing all the good fauna that is being created ? (copepods, amphipods, etc.)

just a thought

[mojoreef]

A DSB is a sand bed that is anywhere from 3-4 inches and up. and that is what I was refering to.

Also, when removing the detritus from these beds are we not removing all the good fauna that is being created ? (copepods, amphipods, etc.)

Yep thier is a possibility that some pods may be removed. I would say if you really wanted them back that they could be plucked from the filter sock (or what ever you use) .

I guess the question that you are raising is the sacrifice (possibly) of a few pods and such worth doing in comparison to just allowing the diterious, organincs and bound metals to just build up . That will be a choice for each reefer tomake I guess. For me I would perfer tohave the stuff out of my system.


mike

[sessydude]

Mike,

That makes sense....I have just heard so much about not disturbing the sand bed, that is what got my curiosity going. I thought cleaning it was a good idea, but just not sure anymore.

We clean detritus material from our rocks and such, it would make sense to get it off of the substrate also.

I have also heard to only disturb the top inch or so when cleaning the DSB. What do you think of that ?

[Jimbo]

Dsb's need creatures to stir them well. I have a black cuke and a sand sifter. Since I've added the sand sifter there's more larger worms and I've noticed they dig deeper in the bed, probally to get away from the sand sifter. My sand sifter has grown about an inch in diameter since it's introduction and my sand bed is anything but dead. But that's just my opinion on SS's. Both the cuke and SS only dig about to a depth of 1.5 inches so I move some of the sand around creating little hills and valleys from time to time so that deeper areas can get stirred. My tank is a year old and from what I can tell I have know hair/cyno algea, although the stupid feather caulerpa grows a little to well. My sand bed is 8" both in the main tank and the 10g refugium. I would think removing about 25% of the sand bed and replacing with fresh stuff once a year would also be helpful.

Just my 2 cents, the denitrifing capabilities of a DSB is awsome.

[mojoreef]

Sessy its a tough call. What we are doing now is trying to retro work a system. So its kind of uncharted. I guess when we got the "secrets of a DSB" we didnt get all the secrets.
To try to answer your questionI am really just making logical guesses. How far to clean I would assume we have to do with how old it is. The idea being is that the diterious will filter down as time goes by. So in order to get at the stuff that is in thier you might have to go deep at the begining to rid yourself of what has accumulated to date, from that point it would fall under some kind of a maintence schedule. Mine is once a month but I believe it should be based on your bio load.
The one problem is going to be trying not to affect your water quality in doing this maintence, so I woulkd suggest doing some experiments with different methods prior to going after it all.

Jimbo I do not see what replacing an ammount of the DSB would have to do with anything. I dont see the good or need in it. could you elaborate a bite.


mike

[Casey]

keep it up guys im taking this all in

[wasabi]

i can only relay my own deep sand bed experience. i have a 5-6 inch deep sand bed in all my tanks and refugiums. im am a believer in them. no nitrates. they look the best of any substrate to me. im just at the three year mark so i can't go any further than that . i have 7000 gallons per hour flow in my 335 the sand doesn't budge. once its an established bed its solid unless you aim your flow directly down in a small orifice. i guess i'll wait for the four year mark to pull my 400 pounds of rock and 1100 ppunds of sand in preperation for the crash. sorry, dont buy it that deep sand beds are a disaster waiting to happen.