Why don't people use mollies to cycle new tanks anymore

[Spanky]

When I was growing up (yes Chris we had glass tanks) the usual way to cycle a new tank was go down to the canal, net a handful of mollies and use them. All pet shops had a tank of salt water mollies just for this too. What happened, when did this go out?
Mollies are tuff, easy to keep, easy to treat, and easy to catch if you want them out. Plus they will eat hair algae.
I was just wondering. Seems like everything you read these days recommends damsels or something like that.
Jerel
Still in Somalia waiting on Drews permission to come home.

[PoorGirl]

Jerel, funny you should bring that up. (Not that I'm having trouble catching my damsels or anything.. hahaha) but I was just in a LFS on saturday and they had mollies in a SW tank. I had never heard of this before then. What a good idea!

[Spanky]

Cindy

You're the reason I thought of this.

[galleon]

(yes Chris we had glass tanks)

ROTFL! Huh, see, and I thought glass wasn't discovered til the bronze age. Once again, Jerel never ceases to amaze me.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: galleon ]

[PoorGirl]

Thanks Jerel! I thought me being a pain might have had something to do with this post. I tried a couple times over the weekend to catch these guys but I refuse to stress out everyone else. Thanks for all your advice and counsel...

Always, Poorgirl

[Reef Rat]

Hi Jerel,

Thanks for starting this thread!

I apologize for returning this thread back into something serious , but just as I was about to post this response earlier, my 16 month-old son discovered the 'reset' button on my computer!

Years ago, I too, used to hear this was the preferable method for running in the tank. Indeed, I just pulled out an old book of mine, "Marine Aquarist Manual" by Loiselle and Baensch ca. 1991. From there comes the following long (sorry) quote:

The usual procedure for running in a biological filter is to add one or two hardy organisms to the newly set-up tank. Their waste provides the initial source of nitrogenous wastes needed to feed the nitrifying bacteria and start the process of bacterial proliferation, while their tolerance of temporarily elevated ammonia levels will usually see them through the process safely. Hermit crabs and the hardier damselfish are usually recommended as starter organisms. Far more satisfactory are a number of readily available brackish-water fishes. The green sailfin molly, Poecilia latipinna, in all of its color varieties, and the Mozambique mouthbrooder, Sarotherodon mossambicus, adapt readily to straight sea water. Both species are widely available and quite inexpensive. The waste output of a pair of mollies or a single 10.0cm (ca.4") long Mozambique mouthbrooder exceeds that of any of the usually recommended marine starter organisms, while their ability to tolerate elevated ammonia and nitrate concentrations is most unlikely to be severely tested by the levels their metabolism will generate in the marine aquarium. Almost equally satisfactory from the standpoint of both hardiness and ability to feed the filter in its earlier stages of development is the spotted cat (Scatophagus argus). Scats make appealing marine aquarium residents, and many aquarists wind up including their "expendable" starter fish in their tank's final compliment!"

So why is it that more of don't use this method? Lack of information on the part of the beginning aquarist?...uninformed personel at the LFS? Or could it be a more cynical reason like: the LFS's just wouldn't sell as many fish (which also just happen to be more expensive)? Could profit margins play a more important role than the well being of the livestock? Curious minds want to know!!!

Personally, I think it's because of all the above factors. Hopefully this thread can help us wake up and do our part to insure this situation changes.

Regards,
Steve

[OodleyBoodely]

My first sw, a 10gal, got cycled using a pair of orange sailfin mollies. They did great and were very attractive to boot. Talk about tough, too. I just dumped them in without aclimating (Yes I deserve a lecture for that careless incident). They looked a little stunned for a few minutes then just went about their business. After the tank had cycled and was ready for sw fish I plopped the mollies back into the fw tank.

You can keep sailfin mollies in saltwater indefinitely and they can even reproduce successfully in full sw. They average upto 4" in the aquarium and up to 7" in the wild. They are active fish that need plenty of 'fin'-room, and, do best in trios of one male/2females. If you are looking for a peaceful, algaevore that will frequent the upper levels of your sw tank, give sailfins a try. I don't know if they would actually be reefsafe or not since I didn't keep mine long enough to find out, but I think it would be worth a try. One more thing, if you decide to try them, look for true sailfins, the wild type are best, the color morphs may have been crossbred with other molly species resulting in some individuals that may be salt-sensitive. Stay away from the smaller types.

[OodleyBoodely]

Reefrat, I'm sure it has to do with $$, and trying to get the customer hooked on marines with the brighter colors of the damsels. Costwise, sailfins are usually sold as pairs for $6-14 pr dep. on color morph, so cost isn't really much of a factor compared to damsels.

[Alice]

Jerel;

Thanks for bringing this up! I've long been pondering setting up a tank or two at the shop for breeding sw mollies for feeders. We don't recommend cycling with live critters but if they will eat hair algae...
If the wild types are best, what are we talking about other than the green ones?

~Alice

[asmith]

I personally don't understand why people even think it is neccesary to cycle an aquarium with fish. I did not cycling my tanks with fish. There is going to be enough die-off on the live rock so start an ammonia spike. Even if you are running a tank with no live rock you can just add a couple of pinches of flake food or a piece of shrimp to the tank to start the ammonia cycle.

Even if the fish can tolerate the high levels of ammonia that occur during the cycle it does not mean the fish are happy. We all know how many techniques were once thought to be the best and as our knowledge has increased we wouldn't even consider using them in our tanks. I think that it is possible that someday we will move away from cycling tanks with fish completely.

I don't use fish to cycle and it does not take much longer (if any) to finish the cycle. Plus I don't have to tear my tank apart trying to get the damsles out when I want to add a different fish.

JMO,
Andrew

[Spanky]

Steve, Alice, Cindy, Chris, OB oops Hi Andrew (posting at the same time)

I don't mean to sound cruel, but it just makes more sense to me to use mollies than some of the salt water fish. Mollies are really a lot tougher.
Look for any of the line crosses from the wild Yucatan sail fins. Which would be black sail fins and black lyretails etc.
I realize that there are many different ways to cycle tanks using inert materials, but I think most people would like to see some fish in their tanks right off the bat. Mollies sure would fill the bill.

Has anyone had any bad experiences with them?
I know I never did, but you never know.

Jerel

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: landescaper ]

[Alice]

I like the fact that they could be a herbivore in a small tank. I may have to see if I can find some, acclimate/QT them and then introduce one or two into my small tank. And they're fairly prolific breeders, aren't they? Free reef food!

~Alice

[OodleyBoodely]

Some of the newer colors that the sailfins come in are solid black, white, orange, chocolate w/reddish fins,and, mottled with 2 or more of the above colors. As I already stated, some individuals may not adjust, but most of them will. My red mottled mollies did great in sw.

[Brooke]

Jerel-
I was just at a LFS where they had lots of black and orange mollies in saltwater. They were big! I don't think I'd want a freshwater-looking fish in my salt tank, but you never know. I still think that cycling without fish is best, but if someone is brand new to the hobby and wants a hardy fish, this might be the answer.

Does anyone know their compatability with other SW fish??

Brooke

[PoorGirl]

Jerel, I obviously don't have any experience with them since this is my first SW tank but it won't be my last and I kept this info in my tips folder for future reference.

Thanks!

P.S. Drew's isopods are in there too! hehe

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: PoorGirl ]