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08-06-2001, 11:25 AM
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#16
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: TN, USA
Posts: 9,693
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My thinking is that cycling with fish was the way to go back when saltwater aquariums were typically FO, using "dead" rock and decorations so that some form of life had to be introduced to kick the cycle; a la' freshwater tanks.
The advent of wide use of LR/LS makes it unneccesary to introduce Ammonia-producing organisms to start the cycle, IMHO. As Jerel points out, one of the big problems during and after the cycle is the temptation to get some fish swimming around in there....it is hard to resist! 
Mollies might be a good alternative for the first fish added right after cycling since they are easier to catch and should not harass new additions.
I did find some sites where use of Mollies to cycle is discussed as well as tips on keeping Mollies in SW: http://www.bestfish.com/breakin.html http://www.ffexpress.com/paletta/cycling_the_tank.html
Dick 
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08-06-2001, 11:31 AM
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#17
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
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Alice, that's what we fed seahorses until we knew better 
OB, great colors! I had no idea.
Brooke, >I still think that cycling without fish is best< I agree 100%. With this exception. You and I are of the old school and know better. We already know what setting up a tank involves and have the patience to wait it out.
Cindy
Dang it! Now Dick and I are posting at the same time.
D*ck, you're the link King. Thanks a million.
[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: landescaper ]
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08-06-2001, 11:38 AM
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#18
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: TN, USA
Posts: 9,693
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heheheheh....
Jerel, I can find the links......its the book larnin' on them I don't understand! 
Dick
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Every day is a good day but some are gooder than others!!
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08-06-2001, 11:47 AM
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#19
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Munich, Germany (exported from Florida)
Posts: 63
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I whole-heartedly support the idea of cycling a tank without any fish at all! Indeed, that's how I cycled my micro-reef tank last year. However, for the new aquarist, I understand their desire to see something swimming around in the tank and think, if we can't convince them to learn a little patience, then for them, using some of the suggested fish (mollies, scats, etc.) is the lesser evil and should be encouraged.
-Steve
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08-07-2001, 10:37 PM
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#20
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Slacker
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Posts: 260
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personally, I always liked the crested gobies more than the sailfins and Gambusia...
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08-07-2001, 11:19 PM
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#21
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
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Whhoooo hooo,
There you are.
Finally someone replies to one of my posts that I didn't have to pay.
We haven't collected crested gobies since we were kids.
Jerel
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08-08-2001, 03:38 AM
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#22
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Nothing to See Here
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montana
Posts: 5,815
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Back in the dinosauer age-----30 years ago when I started my 29 gallon tank I used a black mollie then to make sure my tank had cycled. Johnny |
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08-08-2001, 07:01 AM
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#23
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Slacker
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Posts: 260
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Here I am indeed. Woohoo!
I think a handful of crested gobies in a seagrass tank would be a lot of fun to watch. They were pretty amusing as they tried to lord it over each other, and you could train them like dogs to come to the glass when you approached the tank. I have a bizarre 96" x 10" x 12" acrylic tank that I got from Petsmart for $10 which I intend to set up like that when I can afford to light it.
Mike
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08-08-2001, 08:58 AM
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#24
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
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Let me know when you're ready. I still have one of those old fish traps around here somewhere. Do you remember, the canal across from the house is full of them.
Funny thing, it's also full of mollies too.
>when I can afford to light it.<
Remember, science does not pay. LOL
Jerel
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08-08-2001, 11:37 AM
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#25
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TRT Staff The Mominator
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Just South Of Seattle
Posts: 10,496
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What are crested Gobies?
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 "A BRW Original"
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow... 
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08-08-2001, 08:43 PM
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#26
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
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Waiting for Mike to answer. <Jerel tapping his feet>
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08-08-2001, 11:09 PM
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#27
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Slacker
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Posts: 260
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Some of us do have rather time consumming day jobs you know...
Crested gobies are approximately 2-3" brown gobies (I'd tell you their genus and species, but my book is lost in a packing box somewhere) which are native to south Florida in a variety of water conditions from brackish to super normal salinities. They are dark chocolate brown, cigar shaped, and the males have a small crest on their head which they can lower and raise to entice the lady gobies. I seem to recall that they had some blue or green in their dorsal fin but it's been a while since I've seen one. Anyway, they are near indestructible little fish which was great back in the days of undergravel filters.
By the way, baby (inch long) sand perch are a blast to keep too.
Mike
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08-09-2001, 01:39 AM
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#28
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reefer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,650
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Indeed Alice, what are they? Do you have a pic???
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08-09-2001, 02:11 AM
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#29
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Plankton
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 53
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I don't really understand most of this thread. I am not trying to start a flame war either, but the general tone of most of the posts is to not cycle with fish as it causes needless suffering. What about the suffering of the life in the live rock when it is harvested and when it is cycled? All sorts of hitchhikers are killed and some few survive. What is the difference?
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08-09-2001, 02:21 AM
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#30
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reefer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,650
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hhmmmm, hmmmm hmmmmm, hmmmmmm...
This could get interesting, but we should make sure to keep it cool. When animals come on LR, most of them are animals which are not complex enough to "feel" pain. They may have a response to things, but their brains are not complex enough to actually "feel" it. The most complex animal I have found on my rock is a crab, which is much simpler than any fish. Also, I have heard that most inverts can tolerate higher levels of ammonia and nitrite than most fish can. I could be wrong on this, and since I can't remember where I heard it I can't check. But I do know what you mean. I am going to have to think about this some more, I'll get back, possibly with a different opinion.
Drew
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