Tell me its not true!!

9fishers · 07-12-2003, 07:31 AM

The young girl at the LFS told me yesterday that tank raised Percula Clowns lack the natural immunity to anenome stings. She said they will never host in a coral or anenome. I knew it was hit or miss with tank raised but I thought it was an individual fishes choice....not a genetic flaw.

Thoughts?????

Doug1 · 07-12-2003, 07:42 AM

Hmmmmmmmmm to say never is a large assumption. Some will and some won't also TR seem to be more apt to play outside the box if they deciide to host ssomething.
I am not sure that the exact mechanism for tolerence to anemones is fully unserstood, but one would suspect that wild fish, of successive generations raised on or in a given anemone, would pass on some inherent chemo-identifier that would make the anemone recognize the bearer as friend. I think it still takes a period of assimilating post nemacyst discharge chemicals into the fishes slime coat, to reach the point where the anemone essentially see's the fish as part of self. Way simplified but hey its not quite 5 am and my meds need redone ;

grazhopr · 07-12-2003, 11:01 AM

Last night I saw Discovery Channels half hour documentary, explaining the real facts about Finding Nemo's characters. When they talked about clownfishes in general, they explained that the fish is the one who develops a protective coating by rubbing against the anemone's tentacles. So before they host in a coral, they don't have that protection unless they decide to live in one. Apparently the anemones nematocyst blend with the fish's natural coating to form a protective shield against the coral sting. I think the coral realizes who's living inside her when she "sees" or "senses" the inhabitant has developed inmunity against the sting, and learns that the new resident has arrived to help. My guess would be that the fish ability to develop this defense is passed on from "parent" to "son". The problem maybe that if the fish that grows in captivity never host in an anemone because there is none around and there are no dangers to protect from in the environment they grow , the instinct of protecting themselves amongst anemone's tentacles is not there anymore.

Brooke · 07-12-2003, 11:07 AM

I'm not a geneticist, but i think it would take a few more decades or hundreds of thousands of decades for tank raised clowns to lose their "immunity" to anemone stings. It certainly is NOT true that ALL tank-raised clowns will refuse to host with an anemone. Some will not, but they will usually find another coral host to hang out in. One of the big problems is that the anemone host for some of the more common percula and ocellaris clowns have extremely poor survival records in captivity. We try to substitute their normal anemone of choice with an "easier" to keep anemone. There is no guarantee that the clown will accept the substitute anemone.

Anyway...sounds like she needs some better info

Brooke

squid · 07-12-2003, 12:10 PM

I didn't find this to be true at the store. We brought in both TR and WC clownfish. They were kept in separaate tanks for obvious reason. We also added anemonies in the tanks.

There were fwer TR clownfish that went to anemonies, but they did and seemed quite happy. I don't know if we had added more anemonies if more would have taken.

We also noticed that unless the clownfish takes a nip (I said nip not bite)at the anemonie he/she will not go into it. This was observed many many times at the store, so it leaves me to believe that only if they take a nip at the anemonie will it host in it. I could be wrong here, but we saw this happen alot.

On the other hand, there were many clownfish in both the tanks that didn't want anything to do with any of the anemonies. Didn't matter what kind of anemonie, they just weren't interested.

After all of that, it still comes down to a hit and miss unless you purchase the clown & the anemonie if you see them in the store snuggling happily together.

squid · 07-12-2003, 12:24 PM

BUT...then again, there are those clownfish that don't care what they host...frogspawn, leathers, mushrooms.

LittleFishBoy · 07-12-2003, 01:44 PM

....... open brain corals........

9fishers · 07-12-2003, 03:45 PM

My clowns seem so happy but not the least bit interested in anything in the tank

I have offered frogspawn, hammer coral, a leather,and 2 anenomes. Im just a little bummed. I would really enjoy watching them snuggle.

Thanks everyone,
Nicole

Doug1 · 07-12-2003, 04:08 PM

Nicole, how long have you had the fish and how old is the tank setup, maybe they just don't have much drive to host yet. This may change over time, FWIW

sally · 07-12-2003, 04:29 PM

I agree with Doug, it may take time. How long has the tank been set up? I have a reef tank that has been up and running for 6 years. The clowns (captive raised) were my first two fish in the tank. About two years ago they started hosting in a sarcopyton (leather) that I have. Maybe that is when it just go large enough for them to feel comfortable in. I kinda wish they had an anemone to host in it because I think the leather would stay open more often (it's beautiful) if they were not always swooshing it it.

OodleyBoodely · 07-12-2003, 10:23 PM

I paired up oscellaris and maroons several times trying to get compatible pairs and in most cases, the fish were not interested in corals or anemones for as much as several months after introducing them to my tank. In fact, my oscie pair only sought a coral out after I introduced a young pair of maroons into the tank. I think the more aggressive maroons 'scared' the oscies, so they sought shelter in the big colt coral where they have been for 2+ years now. I think the stress from the other fish helped them decide to seek the protection of the host coral, but, I thought it interesting that they chose the large colt coral instead of one of the two bta in the tank.

9fishers · 07-12-2003, 10:49 PM

We set up our 72g in early May. My 2 percs were our first fish. We have several other fish now, as well. Yall seem to be saying for me not to give up hope. It is a VERY new tank in the grand scheme of things. They can choose from 2 hammers, a mushroom coral, 2 anenomes, and 2 frog spawns. There is also a cabbage leaf leather. There is 100+ lbs. of aquacultured liverock, 100lbs LS,.......so they may still. Im just glad to know the girl at the LFS might not have been 100% right.

Nicole

Tell me its not true!!

"So you're telling me there's a chance..."

My signature was too long so here's my info.