tang problem

[aquaticsdeptleader]

doing some research for a friend with a yellow tang

the tang is very poor in color with red lines running the ength of its dorsal fin just beneath the skin.

i was assumeing this is some sort of bacterial infection but though i would check wiht the experts

any ideas for treatment would be a great help.

tank 40 breeder

water paremters all very good except for nitrates about 30 ppm

tang is eating brine romane

thanks guys

jim

[Junkzoo]

Jim,not sure of cause of condition myself, this just happen?
how long has the friend had the tang?
as a long time user of Romaine in the past, i can say it used to work for me , others might disagree on using it , but back then no one in the tank used to eat nori/seaweed sheets,(oriental food store/LFS) go figure, now they love it , so i have stopped using romaine.
tangs need a lot of greens in their diet, i would offer more along those lines, they need more than romaine/brine
as a scuba diver/ex collector, i can tell you that tang and angels spend the day on the reef:
eating, swimming , grazing, swimming , p@@ping,eating, spawning, eating, grazing ,repeat
they need to graze all day to be happy/healthy, they have a short digestive system, it goes in , goes out fast.
not sure if you problem is food related (doubt)
the other ,smarter "experts" out here might help you .
IMO, it might be nutrition/stress related,try different foods, along the lines of the algae types, soak the food in Selcon or similar.
brine and romaine is not the total diet you need to stay with.
Good Luck!

[ShirleyM]

Hi Aquatics...
Well, right off the top of my head and from one bad similar experience, I'd guestimate cyanide poisoning from when/how he was captured. If that's the case, I doubt it will live...
Shirley

[Junkzoo]

i tend to diito ya Shirley,,,,did not want to say the same until others posted,,, collection/stress/environment come to mind,,,

[Junkzoo]

Shirley, you have mail,,,,

[aquaticsdeptleader]

good mornin shirley

shes had the tang for a couple of months now

had a battle with ick which has been won

the redness came on post ick

i dont think its cyinide as the tangs that come through the purchaseing store never get any thing like this and stay very vibrent in color

if it is cyinde (**** disgusting practice) there is nothing she can do so hopeing isnt the case

thanks
for posts guys

[ShirleyM]

(Thanks Jeff)

Jim...
I'll elaborate a little on my answer.

We got the yellow tang as our first major reef fish purchase, 4 yrs ago. It ate well and was quite a nice fish. Then the reddish streaks started appearing. We called the lfs where we got him. We knew not much then...and believed him when we purchased the fish on sale and he said he'd [the fish] been there a month at least. When we called, he told us one of our corals burned him and told us to come pick up some cream for scrapes and burns on fish...so we did

Well, about that time we also discovered the PA message board and someone, probably someone who is now a member of TRT, with knowledgeable background, explained to us about cyanide poisoning and how it can show up later (can't remember, but seems like more than a week or weeks later). Also explained how it was NOT a coral burn, etc.

Oh, and we couldn't use the cream we bought. That just didn't make sense to try to catch this fish, stress it more, and try to rub cream on its sides!

So, it continued to eat well, then it died...
I'm sorry about your friend's tang.

fwiw,
Shirley Jim, our posts crossed in the mail

[ShirleyM]

And take Jeff's advice on the feeding....that's exactly what saved our 2nd yellow tang's life...one that got terrible ich, recovered, wouldn't eat...was so skinny it was inside out...(different lfs...a reef shop actually, and gave advice identical to Jeff's) and the tang LIVED! It was truly a miracle. But, it never had the reddish streaks. (also 4 yrs ago, and it was killed 2 yrs later when our tigertail cuke went over the overflow and through the return pump)
Shirley

[aquaticsdeptleader]

well

ill hate to have to tell this lady that one of her favroite fish will die simple because somebody was to lazy to catch a fish ethicaly

**** the people that are educated and have the money (not hobbiest but distributers) who just want to make a quick buck.

you cant blame some poor person who makes 30 bucks a year just tryin to feed the family because if it came down to it i porbably would do the same if my family were hungry

[grazhopr]

i agree with Junkzoo post on dietary deficiency.
I learned too, with a yellow tang i had, that Romaine won't be enough. There's not much in it for the fish. It makes a huge difference if you dip it in vitamins. Also diversity will make them happier and healthier. Nori is a good choice, but also if you have a refugium, you could feed him some Caulerpa or other macroalgae from the refugium, or get some from a friend.

[Doug1]

Having it a couple months it may or may not be, as I recall cyanide destroys the liver after a while, often the fish will eat like a pig and still fail to thrive.
A diet of brine shrimp and romaine is like living on popcorn and hot dogs, fills you up but not much nutrition there. I would definatly recommend that your friend start feeding nori(lots) and a more balanced food that is veggie biased, along with treating the food with Selcon, to provide mising nutrients.
Stress is also a consideration, esp if the tang is more than a couple inches long,tangs need swiming room.
Lastly tangs are kind of an indicator species, kind like the old canary in the mine thing. They are sensitive to high nitrates, so getting the level down is a good thing todo. Might even check the tank for stray voltage as well. This is thought to be a factor in Head,lateral line erosion(HLLE disease)
Could be combinations of these things causing the problem, but thats where I would start,FWIW

[tango]

How is cyanide used to capture them , I'm lost but don't worry too much it's normal.

[Junkzoo]

Adl, I too thought of poisoning/collecting when i read your post, but wanted to let the other members offer their,if different answers, to your problem. hoping i might have been wrong.
cyanide,explosive,even vinegar use in collecting stinks in our hobby, i tend to believe it has decreased due to the hobby speaking their voice .
i believe that due to collecting with these means, saltwater fish collecting got a bad rap in the early years,,,the fish were expensive,longevity was rare, but the hobby made it through in time (i believe)
if a "collector" used cyanide on a reef/fish,,,he might have caught the fish then, or it got away for another collector to catch it with a barrier net/hand net later, only to die in time in the boat, on the dock ,at the wholeseller,or in a hobbyist's tank down the road.
the fish might have been caught using a net, but who's to say what the fish went through b4 it was net caught.
poison collected fish will eat ravenously in a tank right up till when they succumb,their "guts" are eaten away from the "juice"

collection practices have gotten better IMO, but i'm afraid it is still out there,,,this includes improper collection, care and shipping,care right up to the time you purchase fish.

as i said before, as a ex-LFS owner,manager,part-time collector, there are still shops that i have seen that have livestock in their store that have no business being there,in tanks that are not suitable to care for them ,with personel that don't know beans about them, getting livestock from places that use shoddy colection procedures. i tend to believe it all works backwards from a "bad" LFS in some cases.
not to say that the store that the tang came from is "bad", but look at it this way back to the collector,, a previous -uncaught"juiced " fish was swimming around with his other unaffected fish buddies, and got netted by a net using collector, i'm sure it happens.
your friends tang may make it through,with luck.
feed it well, and give it all the chances you can give it to survive.
sorry for the long post, but i had to vent,,,,
GOOD LUCK!

[ShirleyM]

tangs need swiming room.

What size tank is this fish in? I ask in part b/c she might replace it with another tang. They need, imo and also rec'd by books and other tang-parents, a minimum 4 ft length of swimming.
We have two in 4 ft, and they use every bit of it.
Like Doug said about scuba diving experiences, when I was snorkeling and watching large groups or Tangs cruising along...well, I felt sorry for ours and could see the difference in fish who cruise and those who are content to hang around a little patch of LR in the sand - same snorkel trip.

Shirley

[Doug1]

Usually squirted from a squirt bottle, tends to stun the fish, bad effects show up much later, if they dont get a lethal initially. Plus the poison tends to wreak havoc on any collateral life in and around the coral head the fish was trying to hide in