sex change

[EnchantedSea]

I bought 3 green chromis yesterday. One of the three is a little bully. Someone told me that they are probably 3 females and the bully female will probably become a male. I heard that anthias do this, I didn't realize that chromis did also. How long for the sex change?

[dark horge]

Hi EnchantedSea,

IIRC (If I recall correctly) Pomacentrids like your Chromis are protoandrous, meaning males first. The dominant individual turns female.

Some other reef fishes are protogynous, or female first, like wrasses --or the Anthias you mentioned.
------

IIRC the dominant fish has to be mature to undergo its transformation, and the change can happen overnight.

However, your immediate problem is the aggression the dominant individual is displaying. In the open water (Chromis are midwater planktivores), this sort of harrassment is non-lethal, as the victim has the space to dart away.

A smallish tank not only denies the victim an escape, but exacerbates the dominant fish's violent claustrophobia: space is at a supreme premium.

Schooling fish rarely school for very long in a reef tank because the unnatural setting and volume upsets their social structure: no predators, so why school? (And it would be foolish to include a predator in a tank, again, because there is no escape individually or as a school). Abnormal food type and feeding times, a lack of adequate swimming space, etc... these all kick the supports out from under schooling behavior.

In the worst cases, the dominant Chromis will kill all its fellows in a reeftank, and attempt to detroy even similar-looking fish.


There have been successes at maintaining a school in a reeftank, though, and the trick has sometimes been to minimize available fixed refuges (much less rockwork that ISN'T already defended out by a meaner fish), lots of open water, and a source of plankton-like food released into good, surging water movement.

hth,
horge

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: dark horge ]

[Alice]

Welcome, Enchanted Sea!

The book about clownfish by Joyce Wilkerson may give you a clue to how long of a time period it takes for the change-over (damsels and clownfish are "cousins".)

From personal observation, my Maroon clown went through a color change during the "switch" that lasted about a month; she went from the Maroon/Burnt Orange coloration to almost black. I don't know how long the other physical changes took to accomplish.

~Alice

[EnchantedSea]

Oh my! Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to add the little fellas. I took the advice from another board. I have a 65g with a maroon clown, flame angel, scooter blenny, frogspawn, green hammer, feather duster, xenias, green leather, emerald crab, blue linckia star and a coral banded shrimp. I do not have a lot of live rock yet as my financial situation took a sudden dive. But do plan to add more rock later. I purchase the 3 chromis yesterday. and today I have seen no sign of aggression. But 2 days time, who knows. I'm still learning and I have to ask all these questions. Any further advice will be appreciated. Thank you all for your help.

[dark horge]

The clownfish darkening Alice describes is also known as "melanism", and in the wild is linked to close association with a host anemone. It is not entirely clear why this takes place, though nematocyst burns on fish skin can manifest as dark spots --maybe the clownfish is toughning its skin with 'scar tissue', who knows?

For some clownfishes, this reaction may be restricted to associations with particular hosts. Freaky stuff, especially when it has supposedly happened in the ABSENCE of anemone hosts...

Wooo-haaa!!

[dark horge]

Sorry, missed your last post, EnchantedSea...

That Flame just might add inducement towards schooling, and a 65 properly aquascaped just might support 3 Chromis whether or not they school, take whacks at each other, or carve out their own individual territories.

Do the additional rocks with an eye towards free swimming lanes, with possibly archways for escape and evasion by the harrassed.

Good luck and have fun!!


horge
Emperor of the unKnown Universe

[DaveJ]

Hi Enchanted,

I have 4 chromis, they were my cycling fish. They have always swam together and there is a heirarchy between them for sure. They chase and harass each other all day, but it doesn't get violent that I have noticed. One of the 4 is about twice the size of the others and I think this is the kingpin. They all seem to defer space to it. Other than that, they appear to be fine.

[Alice]

Horge;

She's never hosted with an anemone; what she does host with is a Gold Crowned Toadstool (Sarcophyton) and that's when the color change started happening. I posted to three different boards in a panic about it. She started out with a fairly thick mucus coating, then started losing pigment on her belly. I asked specifically if this had to do with acclimating to the Sarcophyton and was told "never heard of that happening!" Within a month, the light colored patches turned dark, now she's very dark brown, almost black, with white stripes. She's a "stealth fish" against the black background of the new tank.

~Alice

[EnchantedSea]

Yes, the flame does keep them away from his corner of the tank. He doesn't nip at them or charge them or anything its just if they get a little too close, he'll do a fly-by and then they all swim away together. Most of the time the bully will now go off by himself while the other two stay together. Then he will come back periodically. But I haven't seen any more nipping between them.

[EnchantedSea]

Well, I lost one of the chromis yesterday. I noticed he was breathing hard and after I got back from the store later in the day, he was dead. They showed no signs of this at the lfs. Now a second one is breathing hard and the third one (bully) seems to be ok so far. Do you think I have some type of parasite? I'm worried about my flame angel and my clown. What should I do?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by EnchantedSea:
Do you think I have some type of parasite?

Hi EnchantedSea,
First realize it's very early here and I've only had one cup of coffee, but I wanted to say hi too.
You could have a acclimation problem, but this is probably Velvet, could be Brooklynella (naw!). Moving too fast for Ick. Have you noticed anything on their skin? If you're like me, you need your glasses for this. First try to identify what you're working with.
Sorry you're losing fish.
Jerel

[EnchantedSea]

The one that died, I took out and inspected...I couldn't see anything, but yes, I just ordered reading glasses. So down the toilet he went. I do have a UV Sterilizer so I'm hoping this will save my flame angel and my maroon clown. Should I remove the other fish? Or will it matter at this point? This is terrible. I've had the other fish for 4 months and everything was very healthy and flourishing. Now this

[Spanky]

Originally posted by EnchantedSea:
Should I remove the other fish? Or will it matter at this point?

Ok, second cup!

I'm hate to tell you this, but probably not. You know there's not really anything you can add to a reef tank to treat for parasites. Tell me about the UV. What size? Flow rate? What to work on the angle of lower salinity and UV?

Jerel

[EnchantedSea]

Its a LifeGuard 25 watt. How can tell what the flow rate is? When it comes to equipment, I'm lost. I'm just sick over this. Thanks for helping

[Spanky]

Call/email LifeGuard and ask them the flow rate to kill parasites. I really have no idea on that product. What you'll need to do is adjust the flow rate thru the UV a tad less than what they recommend and increase the in tank circulation. How old is your blub and have you cleaned the inside of the UV lately?
As far as lowering the salinity, someone else needs to take over on this. I'm sure the way I do it would not be the best way for you.
My guess on a 25w UV would be about 40-50gph but don't go on this, check with LG. OK?
You might also need to start on Horge's garlic therapy too.
So far you're doing fine.
Jerel

PS You might want to start a new thread since this is no longer a sex change thing. You'll probably get more help with disease/parasites if you do.
HTH
Jerel

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: landescaper ]