Black Worms for Mandarin??

bigjohn · 09-24-2003, 11:10 AM

I've had a mandarin goby in my tank for about a month now. It appears to be doing OK with the native pod population as its only food source, but the owner of my LFS suggested that I try to supplement his diet with black worms.

Has anyone fed these before?? Any pitfalls??? I keep hearing horror stories about flatworms and don't want to accidentally infest my tank.

Any other suggestions for feeding this beautiful fish?? I do wish that I could offer some alternatives for its diet.

JennM · 09-24-2003, 11:16 AM

Mandarins are not gobies -- they are dragonets. Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine

Just like Scooter dragonets aren't blennies... but I digress...

IMO the best thing to do is make sure that the pods have a place to reproduce (ie refugium) in quantities sufficient to sustain the Mandarin. The odd rarity will eat prepared foods, but they are few and far between. Most would rather starve than eat something they aren't used to.

Blackworms and flatworms are totally different. Our club got a sample bag of live flatworms from a supplier once - I spent an hour doling out "servings" to club members, with my bare hands... yummmmmm squishy

Blackworms do not resemble pods in any way, so I'm not sure that a dragonet would even see them as a food item.

Jenn

bigjohn · 09-24-2003, 11:26 AM

Thanks, Jenn!!

I should have known that about the proper name.

I may give the black worms a try. Maybe some of my other fish will enjoy them if the mandarin doesn't.

JennM · 09-24-2003, 11:34 AM

Oh I'm sure the others will enjoy

They are great with ketchup!

Jenn

Joel · 09-24-2003, 11:46 AM

Blackworms? What are they and will they take over a tank? Are they beneficial and something I would want to try to aquire? I have had a Mandarin DRAGONET

for over 2 years in 3 different tanks (75, 90, and 135) without a refugium and it is just as fat, active, and happy as any other. Do I need to worry about him starving now or is it a pretty safe bet that there is enough food for him to never eat it all. I waited about 3 years with the 75 before I ever got a Mandarin because I didn't want to kill it.

JennM · 09-24-2003, 11:53 AM

Blackworms are a terrestrial food. No they won't take over the tank, they will die there and foul the water if uneaten.

If your dragonet

is fat and happy, don't worry - but always watch that he's sufficiently plump - once they start to get skinny it's often too late.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Jenn

Joel · 09-24-2003, 11:58 AM

thanks Jenn

Ray1214 · 09-24-2003, 12:02 PM

I actually supplemented my Mandarin's diet with enriched brine shrimp, live Baby BRine Shrimp and live brine shrimp. He seemed to dig Rotifers a bit also, but I am not sure if he as going after food that small or just the pods that ate the rotifers. I built a small internal refugium with a Betta Keeper and just macro algaes and some live rock rubble. The mandarin learned to wait patiently near the grate holes and just let his supper come to him. Mine also cleared out a flatworm infestation on a coral I got from Captive Bred Corals and on the bad note, he wiped out all of the spaghetti worms I got with my live rock. I also suspect him of the Peppermint Shrimp Baby Slasher. (I had a pregnant peppermint shrimp then all of a sudden not pregnant but didn't see any babies)
Be careful of powerheads. My Mandarin got sucked into a powerhead intake and didn't make it. The Tang knocked off the intake filter on a Mag powerhead. He was so fat, only his head could make it in the intake but that was enough to kill him.

Ray

Geoff · 09-24-2003, 12:51 PM

i think the biggest problem with keeping mandarines are thier tankmates. a lot of people have fish or other critters that will outcompete the mandarine for food. wrasses, damsels, clowns, many others. pods are a great food source so most critters eat them. the problem lies in the fact that mandarines are slow, real slow. so the faster critters are able to eat them, eventually the mandarine starves.

all of my fish are herbivorous or plankton feeders. my pod population is starting to balloon, this is after a year. i plan on getting something to eat them. i have picked the fish i have so that i could keep a mandarine. this is also in a 125g.

my .02

G~

bigjohn · 09-24-2003, 01:54 PM

My mandarin spends all its time combing the rockwork and seems to be eating, but I can't tell how much it is getting. I waited 3 years before introducing my mandarin, and I have a very big population of pods in my overflows. Hopefully it is enough to sustain him.

cyberchef · 09-25-2003, 12:58 AM

I've fed my mandarine Black Worms before. He slurped them up like spaghetti...

He would also eat just about anything else that was introduced into the tank. I got lucky with him...

sfletch3 · 09-25-2003, 01:17 PM

Seems that I have gotten lucky as well. My Mandarin is very happy to accept live or frozen brine shrimp. He's is very happy, hovering around the tank and trying anything small and moving.

Maybe it's a he??? Do you have to roll them over to tell???

JennM · 09-25-2003, 01:18 PM

Males have a tall streamer on their dorsal fin. Females do not.

Jenn

sfletch3 · 09-25-2003, 01:32 PM

Well, she will be glad to hear that!

capman · 09-26-2003, 12:48 AM

Blackworms are freshwater (not terrestrial) oligochete worms related to tubifex worms and earthworms. They are cultured in California for sale to fishkeepers, and are extremely popular among serious freshwater fish breeders. Freshwater fish love them and they are often used to fatten up fish and stimulate spawning. Some folks don't trust their safety and attribute disease problems to their use, but if the the worms are in good condition they are probably pretty safe. I know people who use them routinely and swear by them (e.g...."nothing puts weight and growth on a fish like blackworms"). You need to keep them cold in a refrigerator and give the worms daily rinsings of water and keep them in a proper container (special blackworm-keeping boxes with raised screen bottoms are available)...otherwise they will start to die and get pretty foul very fast. To keep a large quanty of them they have to be kept wet but not submerged..if submerged they quickly run oout of oxygen and die if there is a large quantity of them.

They will die fairly quickly in saltwater.

I have heard of folks soaking them in a bit of Selcon before feeding them to marine fish. I don't know how much of this the worms take up, but this is probably a good idea. Though they are extremely nutritious, given their freshwater origins I would imagine they are deficient in the highly unsatruated fatty acids that apparently are so important for marine fish nutrition.

Bill