The obligatory: PLease please help

[lgordon]

Heres where I get dramatic. Im sorry I am always on here in desperation. I wish I could bring exciting things to you all instead of pleas for help. I spoke with you all about an ammonia problem I THOUGHT was bad. 1.0 ppm. (see post "ammonia from the dying?") I had no idea how bad it could get. I made a BIIIG mistake and vacuumed a small part of my sand bed that I could see was blackish through the side of the tank. The next day my Ph went from 8.0 to 7.1. No one believes me but its true and my fish are still alive and even some microhermits are still alive (see tank specs) but I am sure I am about to sit here and watch them all die. I even bought a new test kit to be sure. They are alive currently but very still. (I feel like throwing up!) I have done 2 15% water changes today, one at 9 and one at 3.... added buffer a LITTLE ph up (which brought it to 7.6) and probably way too much amquel. (is that possible?)
Im at 5.0 mg/l for Ammonia!!!! I have added heavy doses of amquel/ kent detox twice and no change in the ammonia! I alternate with Kent brand detox because the LFS told me to use it. BUT I read when your Ph is low and your ammo is high that water changes are dangerous. Is this true? Should I do another one? should I try to pull out anything alive and put it in a bucket?. Will the shock of that kill them for sure?
Needless to say I am sleeping at the museum tonight. Anyone want to call me collect? Id be more than happy to pay for the call. I cant believe im asking that- but im really desperate. My lfs told me to just wait. Im trying to, meanwhile Im removing all the bio balls and hoping that will help.
Thank you as always for your help.

[lgordon]

By the way, I still have found nothing dead that could have done this. All fish are accounted for, so is my largest crab.

[Alice]

and slow down just a bit

One of the things you can do right now to improve the situation is to keep the water surface really rippling with a powerhead aimed at it.

As for the bio-balls, unless you were at the stage where you were ready to pull them anyway, I'd stop and leave them in. Your problem right now is ammonia, not nitrates, and they will at least help the tank to convert the ammonia.

Do you have any carbon?

Alice

[lgordon]

Yup. lots of carbon.
P.s. the nitrites are at .2 Nitrates are unchanged. well- im half way through taking out the balls. do I stop or keep going? They are not smelly or clogged at all, but now the water in the sump is cloudy. I can change that though. I have enough water made already.

[FishDaddy]

I would not recommend removing the bio-balls, particulary at this time. I would do another water change; continue to run carbon; keep circulation up, especially at the surface as Alice suggested, and not add any more AmQuel or other additives.
Sure hope it settles down quickly.
Dick

[Alice]

This is what I would do: Leave the bioballs for now, don't add any more amquel, run the carbon, aim a powerhead at the surface and just let it be until morning. If you had only added a small amount of buffer and it was more than a few hours ago, you could add a little more but you're going to have to be careful of the yo-yo effect on your water chemistry.

Your fish and crabs can take a certain amount of ammonia and nitrates if the water is well aerated. However, they can go into pH shock if the level shoots up and then plummets back down. In the morning, I'd check the levels, do another small water change and add a little more buffer if the levels are still really low. At this point, you're going to have to let the system work for you on it's own for a bit...too many changes too fast are not going to let it stabilize.

That's what I'd do anyway...let's see if others chime in and then maybe you can put things together to best fit your situation.

Alice

[Brooke]

Removing the bioballs at this point is a bad idea. Mix enough water to do another good sized water change. That will help dilute the ammonia and raise your pH. 30% at this point would probably be ok. Let it mix for at least 12 hours.

See if your LFS has the SeaChem ammonia alert. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=4387

or...get another ammonia test to verify your results.

Don't make anymore drastic changes in the tank...besides a water change. Give it a few days to level off. You might try adding some nitrifying bacteria used to start a tank if your biological filtration is in question.

HTH-
Brooke

[lgordon]

Wow. you all are so fast. I really believe in karma, and I hope yours is instant!

OKay I put in two new bags of carbon, put BACK the bio balls, and I can rinse the old bag out and put in more carbon. I just did a 15% change. I have 2 more bags and 64 ounces of carbon left. How much is too much? (I have those standard sized bags)
Ill make 30 gallons of water. Here's the rub...im running out of water! I use sparkletts (Ro and deionised water) and I only have 60 gallons left until they open on monday. Can I use tap water in an emergency? lemme do some chemistry in a test sample of tap water and see what I get...
Should I keep the tank lights on tonight? Silly question maybe....
I stopped feeding since they aren't coming out anyway...right?

[Mrs Smith]

I'm so sorry to hear...

Our 135 (system is 185) crashed last month, and crashed hard. We never figured out what triggered it, but we basically suffered a major "failure" of the biological filtration system. The best advice I can give you is to aerate the heck out of it, and sit tight. The more oxygen you can get in that water, the better.

We did over 100g of water changes at the height of the ammonia spike, and managed to keep the ammonia only slightly off the charts. (It was well above 8ppm) We ran out of water, too. Ended up biting the bullet (at the advice of a trusted reefer) and letting the darn thing re-cycle.

Since you have no fish missing, and nothing else to indicate where the problem came from, just wait and watch. We ended up re-cycling our system with a 6" Naso tang in it. Take stock tommorow, and see if you can find foster homes for the corals. The fish should pull through if the levels don't get too high. Amazingly, most of our snails and crabs survived the cycle, along with some really hardy shrooms. We didn't lose a single fish, either. Seems that these critters can handle drastic changes, as long as they are slow.

Just try to take a few deep breaths - but I know how hard it is watching your price-and-joy (even if it isn't "yours") go downhill fast.

Danielle

[Mrs Smith]

Just had a thought - I don't use Amquel, but it is one of those chemicals that messes with your test kits? Some of the detox chems will give you false high readings...

Good luck,
Danielle

[lgordon]

I knew you all would understand how I feel! No- its not my money (though it is the end of my budget for this year..so it may well be my money soon enough) but I have poured my heart into this thing for the last 2 years! Well... you understand. I am so glad to hear im not the only one this has happened to! I try to be so very diligent and I feel like a complete A&& for screwing up.
Fortunately for me (and them) I have no corals. I suppose this is why. Im sooooo not ready for that.

[Doug1]

I dont know what to tell you Low pH results in less ammonia toxicity. If ammonia is really 5 get everything out in something else and do a seerious hunt for remains and a huge water change
Good luck

[lgordon]

I guess I won't sleep here after all- especially if theres nothing anymore I can do. I was all ready to go camping with my poor husband when this happened, so I even had a sleeping bag in the rental car! More carbon? lights on? ( I read something about oxygen dropping at night...)

[Doug1]

Anything you can do to increase areation at this point, borrow a big skimmer if you can, I know its late, then head out with hubby, its outtay your hands at this point

[Piero]

redundant but worth repeating:
- leave your sandbed alone for pete's sake!
- lots of circulation and aeration
- water changes, and leave the additives alone.

Wish you all the best. I'd love to make it down to see the museum disPLAY in sunny LA! jeez i need more sleep.