Starting a new tank

[LJorges]

Hello everyone. I have been into keeping marine fish for about 9 years now but have never tried to start a reef tank.
I have a 50 gallon with a sail fin tang,a couple of damsels, goby, and a yellow tang.
I also have a 37 gallon tank (tall) that had one lion fish who just died (6 years old). I am interested into turning that tank into a reef tank. I have a wet dry filter on it with a hang on the back protein skimmer, heater, and a hood with a flourescent light. What steps should I take to change it over to a reef setup.
I'd be interested in hearing what type of breakdown should I do to the tank, the amount of live rock/live sand, types of lighting (I am a teacher so I don't make too much - I keep reading about something from Home Depot?), also good books to use as a resource in starting a reef tank (do all of them cost $40? :-) )
Whew! I know that is a lot but I feel so lost when I go to the stores looking at anything involving reef tanks.
I know I will probably take a big hit on the live rock but I would like to keep the price and the fuss down to a minimum if at all posible.

Thanks,

Les

[ReefJunkie]

Hi Les, To start I would go with a 4-6" deep sand bed (fine sugar size with slightly coaser grains at the top) and about 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon. I would remove all of the bio-balls from your wet/dry and turn it into a sump. Wet/drys work great for fish only tanks but will keep unwanted nitrates high in your reef tank. Other than your protien skimmer the live rock and sand will do all of your filtration. Lighting all depends on what you want to keep. I would suggest a 175-250watt metalhalide supplemented with a couple flourescents or 2-3 96 watt power compacts. Do you know what you would like to keep?

This will help get you on the right track. There are some very knowledgable people on this board that I'm sure will give you some input Please keep asking questions. HTH

------------------
Scott

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all"
reef@pacifier.com
"Work like you don't need the money,
Love like you have never been hurt,
And dance like no one is watching"

[This message has been edited by ReefJunkie (edited 02-04-2001).]

[Pik]

Hi Les, welcome to the board!

What's the dimension of a 37 gallon tall?

As RJ has suggested, you will not want to use the wet/dry. Is it the wet/dry that uses the bio-balls? If it is, you can just take out the bio-balls.

Anyways... skimmer that you have might work, what kind is it?

Heater, you'll definitely need during winter in Chicago!

Lighting, you will want to upgrade. Depending on what kind of corals you want to keep, that will decide your lighting for you.

Personally, I like to have a not so deep live sand as other people. I think a good 3 inch is fine. What do you have as a substrate right now?

Live rock, I do it visually. About 40-50% of the tank volume?

Books, there's a few out there. For beginner reefs, I like the Conciencious Reef Aquarist (sp?). Sorry, I can't spell today.

Hope that helps a little bit.

[Alice]

Welcome to The Reef Tank! Glad to have you aboard!

The dimensions on the tank are important, tall generally is not the greatest for a reef. Lower and wider is ideal. The tank is always the cheapest part; you might want to look at used tanks to get something a little better suited if this one proves to be too tall and narrow.

Lighting is going to be your biggest upgrade here. As Pik pointed out, the animals you want to keep will decide what type of lighting you'll need.

If the tank is 3' long or more, you may want to go to an IceCap ballast with VHO (very high output bulbs (then you can utilize the $5 GE bulbs from Home Depot as *part* of the lighting). The ballast is a little spendier at the outset but the bulb replacement costs help make up for that during changeouts.

PC (power compact) lighting is another way to go on a smaller tank. You may be able to retrofit the hood you have now with pc lighting for a price you can live with, although replacement costs on the bulbs will be more than VHO. www.ahsupply.com has retro kits for PC's.

Or, you can go with the Metal Halides as Scott suggested. All these lighting types have their devotees and are better in some instances than others. Lighting is probably the singly most confusing issue facing a first time reefkeeper.

Yes, most of the books do cost around $40, lol. Even though our hobby is on the top of our minds most of the time (this gets addicting-look for the 12 step program in your area now )it is still a hobby of a small population compared to freshwater fish or say, model trains. "The Natural Reef Aquarium" by John Tullock is probably my favorite book to recommend. Do a search for used books stores online and start calling or emailing them, you might get lucky

We'll help all we can; hang in there and keep asking questions. The board has been having some capacity problems the last few days (we're working on it, thanks for your patience!) but you might try doing a search on the board and in the archives for "lighting" or any of the light types I mentioned above.

HTH,

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[This message has been edited by Alice (edited 02-05-2001).]

[LJorges]

Thanks for the replies.
I will post the dimension of my tank when I get home tonight. I only know that the hood is about 29 inches long.
My only problem with getting a different tank is that this one is built into the wall (after the basement remodel).
Question: Why are bio balls bad for reef tanks?
Without the bio balls would I be using the wet/dry for particle filtration and for putting in additives?

Should I totally break down the tank before starting and clean everything out? I have a thin layer of crushed coral on the bottom.

Another question: (yikes!!!) I thought that having a substrate on the bottom of a reef tank was a no no. Has the thinking on that changed. Should it be "live" sand or do they just sell regular sand for that purpose. Would the sand go entirely on the bottom of the tank or would it fill in the places where there are no live rock?

The protein skimmer I have is pretty mediocre, should I invest in a good one? Are there good ones that hang on the back that are venturi driven as opposed to the air stones? Air stones were such a PIA.

Sure to have more questions.

Thanks,

Les

[Pikaboo]

Les,

The bio balls, as you know, is a living area for bacteria that helps with the nitrogen cycle. It converts from Ammonia to Nitrite, then to Nitrate. With bio balls in, you're likely to end up with more nitrate in your sytem than you'd like. Live rock and live sand will be your main filtration system.

You don't need to take down everything. How big are the crush corals? If they're pretty small grain, you can just add live sand on top of that.

I believe before, people didn't like idea of substrates (big grain substrates) because they collect ditrius. But with live sand, people love idea of substrates in their tanks. Some people put even 6" of sand in their tank.

Live sand, you can buy online. You can also find some at your LFS. What I would do is go buy just regular small grain sand from your LFS that's for marine system (not just regular sand for your fresh water). I think Cribsea is a brand that people use? Then just add a few pounds of live sand on top of that to "seed" the "dead" sand. Does that make sense?

Protein skimmers... you should invest on a good one. I think a few HOB that I've heard are good are: TurboFloater HOB, Remora Pro, and BakPak.

Let me know what you're looking for as far as equipments go. I will see how much I can get it for.

Phil.

[LJorges]

BTW
The tank measures 23" tall by 30" wide by 12" deep.
With these dimensions, what should I be looking for with respect to lights - the more specific the better - if you could put down approximate costs that would be great, that way I can tell if my LFS is trying to take me for a ride. I know lighting depends on the types of animals (I haven't studied what is out there yet), but assume that I would start with the hardier species before I moved up to (if ever) to more difficult species to maintain.

Right now I have the pinkish hawaiian puka (?) shells. Should I remove them or put the sand over them. Also, dump all the old water and start with fresh?

Do reef tanks go through a cycling phase like fish only tanks (assume that I will be using cured rock)? If so, what starts the cycle and approximately how long does the tank need to cycle?

Enough questions yet? I hope not.


Thanks,

Les

[Pik]

With that type of lighting, I would just go with Metal Halide. This will penetrate to about 24 inch depth. I would just use a 250W, this way you don't really need to upgrade later. You can get the ballast for approx $85 online. The bulb would run for about $60. Cord and socket for the bulb would be about $40. With this, you won't have to upgrade lighting again no matter what type of corals you're going to end up with.

As far as substrate.... I know I've seen the puka shells, but I can't remmber off the top of my head. Go to your LFS and look at their cribsea sand and compare the size. If it's not much difference, then go ahead and add new sand on top. If the grain size is 3x bigger, then you might want to take out the old and put in the new. You don't have to take the old one out at all if you don't want to. Sometimes, the smaller grain sand, when mixed with a big grain sand, the small tends to find its way down to the bottom and you'll have the big grain on top.

Yes, reef tanks go through the same cycle as fish tanks. with fully cured rocks (from LFS) you might not need any cycling at all. But if you get uncured from MO, then you'll have to cycle for at least 2 weeks. If you have old water in there, that's actually great because it has the bacteria in there already to start cycling.

Ok... that's enough for today... I'm off to lala-land.

PS. Email me and I'll get you better prices on the lights n stuff.

[Alice]

One thing I need to ask since this was a fish-only tank. Have you ever treated the tank for diseases or parasites? If so, could you please post the medications you used in the tank? Inverts are especialy sensitive to copper, it kills them actually, and you may need to tear the tank down and clean it thoroughly, disgarding the old substrate, too, if you've ever treated with a copper-based medication.

Thanks,

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[LJorges]

Alice,

I did treat the tank about two years ago with a copper medication.

Should I tear down completely to be on the safe side. Also, what do you think about the Aqua C Remora/Remora Pro?

Thanks,

Les

[FishDaddy]

Hi Les,
Yes, tear down the tank and clean it thoroughly, rinsing several times with freshwater. Residual copper in your system could be deadly for the inverts, snails and crustaceans in your reef.
I have a Remora on my 55 and a Bak Pak2R on my 38. From my experience, the Remora would be a fine skimmer for a 37, especially after the supplied Rio 800 is eventually replaced with a Maxi-Jet 1200.
I second Alice's recommendation on Tullock's book as well as Robert Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Either is $26 at Marine Depot, but check other sites for possible bargains.
Here are some helpful sites for setting up a reef, bearing in mind there are sometimes conflicting opinions so you need to read as much as possible so you can make your own informed decisions:
http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=reeffaq&list
http://faq.thekrib.com/sbegin.html
http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html
http://www.hobbyschool.com/reef/
http://www.mcs.net/~rogers/frame.html
HTH
Dick

[Pikaboo]

Wow.. I totally didn't think about that! Good catch Alice! How ya doin? I haven't talked to you in a while.

[FishDaddy]

Alice is good!
Dick

[inlandreef]

You can get 75$ Metal Halide ballast, bulb, and reflector at http://www.aquaticlight.com/
Check it out

[Pikaboo]

That is a cheap lighting system. There's a few things I don't like about it.
1. The ballast isn't enclosed. (PFO is big.. but it's good)
2. Only 175W
3. with 4300K bulb, you'll definitely want to upgrade.

But.. it is an option.