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Rock on bare bottom or sand, then rocks...

10K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  Brooke 
#1 ·
OK, hubby and I are planning the tank move and I was thinking we'd aquascape first, then add sand. My reasoning is to make the rock structure more stable and prevent areas of compaction from the rocks sitting on top of the sand. We've always added sand first, but I'm thinking the other way around is a better idea.

How do you guys do it...

Brooke
 
#4 ·
Brooke,
The last one I set up, I put an inch or so of sand in, then arranged the rocks, pushing them down into the sand to the bottom. This first layer of sand added stability to the structure as I was building it and helped minimize scratching. Then, I added the rest of the sand.
Dick
 
#7 ·
what about putting down a layer of eggcrate first so it distributes the weight more evenly? i had a bunch of extra when i built me refugium and did just that for the hell of it. just a thought! might not be benifical for the dsb though. not really sure what do you guys think?
 
#9 ·
Originally posted by Minnreefer:
Dick that is what I was thinking, I guess great minds think alike.

Jonathan
Hey Jonathan are you trying to imply something about me here?


But seriously, I believe Dr. Ron thinks that the use a PVC to stablize rock structure is harmful to a DSB. I imagine rocks buried in the sand could have the same effect. Once again, JMHO.

Drew
 
#10 ·
Drew-
OTOH, rocks compacting the sand bed cant be good for the DSB concept either.

Hmmmm....back to square one. I think Dick has the right idea as well, but maybe take it one step farther. Make a 2 inch deep sandbed, then add rock, then add 2 more inches of sand. This way you aren't burying 4 inches of rock, but still providing stability. What do you guys think??
 
#12 ·
You can always use limestone or tuffa rock as base rock to bury in the sand and provide a base for your liverock. It is calcium based and reef safe.
 
#14 ·
Cut eggcrate into 3 inch square sections, stack them to a height of about 4 or more inches (depending on the depth of your sand bed) then glue them together to give you some nice little platforms to set the rock on. They will push down thru the sand easily so you can put the sand in first to get a nice even bed. This method is mentioned by Bob Goemans in his "Live Sand Secrets" booklet (I'm not using a plenum) and it's worked well for me, my rock is as stable as if it's setting on the tank bottom but it's not buried at all.

I would think larger pieces of PVC tubing would work well too, say 2-3 inches in diameter placed vertically on the bottom. I would drill several holes in the tubing though so critter could go thru and keep the sand stirred. Haven't tried this method but I really can't see any reason it wouldn't work.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: slash7 ]
 
#16 ·
Originally posted by Brooke:
I respect what Dr. Ron has done for the hobby, but I think the vast majority of people on the boards are taking everything he says as the gospel
Brooke, I've had those same thoughts. This hobby is changing rapidly, and we always seem to have a guru of the day. I am in no way meaning any disrespect to Dr. Ron or any of the other people that have been pioneers in the hobby, and have given so much time and effort to further it along and help share their knowledge. However, each or our tanks are very different, and one particular method may work well for some, and not work at all for others. The advice of others should certainly be considered, but good judgement and common sense, along with your own personal preferences should guide you. Just because someone said so, or you read it somewhere does not mean that it is THE way to do it. Sorry for venting...
 
#17 ·
Some names come to mind..Adey, Thiel, Jaubert, Sprung, Weiss, Sy, etc., etc.
Yep, but while most of them will lose their fame in the hobby, I will always respect Dr. Jaubert as a reef scientist. His interests didn't (and still don't) lie in captive hobby, but in contributing to the science, and always being open to questioning about anything. Julian is someone I deeply respect and admire for his humility and warm, instant comaraderie; and, regardless of whether you've just met him, he makes you immediately feel like an old friend. Slash, Ron is hardly a pioneer. I hope Jerel tells you about the conch. If not, with his permission, I will.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: galleon ]
 
#18 ·
Originally posted by galleon:
Slash, Ron is hardly a pioneer. Maybe in his own mind, but thats it.
I don't disagree with you one bit. I thought it prudent to be generous as I'm not intending to start any flames and I've seen some posts on other boards really get out of hand whenever someone's "Reef god" is dissed.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: slash7 ]
 
#19 ·
Ok, I'll tell. But only because it's funny.

A few days ago someone posted on "Ask Dr. Ron" if he had a conch or a whelk. He was sold a fighting conch. Turns out without a picture neither was sure. I have a picture of a fighting conch that I posted and also mentioned she was 8".
Ron informed me that fighting conch get no bigger than 4" and what I had was obviously a queen conch.
I mention this only to point out that we can all be wrong for any numerous reasons.
BTW It wasn't me. It's a picture of a fighting conch (Strombus pugilis) also known as the West Indies Fighting Conch. This is the one that is aquacultured for the pet trade. Max size 10-12".
As Brooke mentioned, we should gather as much information as we can, weight it, take it all with a grain of salt. The smarter we each become, the better able to make our own decisions. Unfortunately, there can be few hard and fast rules on closed systems. Each is different.
Jerel
 
#20 ·
Well said by everyone-
That was the point I was trying to make...that there are no hard and fast rules in this hobby and if anyone tells you its their way or the highway....RUN!!

Brooke
 
#21 ·
I have said this so many times in trying to help new reefers:
"There are many differing opinions, even among the experts, so you should read as much as you can so that you can make your own informed choices"

There really aren't many absolute "absolutes"in this hobby. Just look at how some of the theories and "how to set up a saltwater aquarium" ideas have changed in the past few years. Temp. 77f and 1.023 S.G., for example! :
I certainly know very little compared to the Thiels, Moe's; Sprungs; Delbeeks; Verons; Tullocks; Shimeks; and so many others who have shared their knowledge with hobbyists and I have great respect for their opinions and findings. But, we must remember, they often disagree with one another! None are infallible and they also continue to learn.

As for Dr. Ron, I really appreciate the way he volunteers his time to answer questions from marine hobbyists. I respect his knowledge and consider him an excellent resource.

I can say the same thing about the dozens of experts who do the same thing on the boards, especially TRT which has several resident members who are highly respected in the scientific and reefing community. I won't mention their names because I don't want to leave anyone out but I really do appreciate you!

I'm definitely not going to bash anyone because they make a mistake or disagree with someone else. That's against my nature (and TRT's policies). I do question and compare and look for as many different opinions as I can find when I have a question.

Back to the original topic, I set my first tank up by adding all the sand and then pushing the bottom rocks down until they touched bottom. I read about pvc rings; eggcrate; rocks on top of the sand; and other suggested methods. These are all viable alternatives. I even considered a plenum but decided it was too much trouble.
I then made my own choice.
For the second tank, I decided to add an inch or so of sand, set the rocks, then add the rest of the sand. That worked just fine, too.

So, Brooke, consider the options and then do your LR/DSB the way you want to!!!!
Dick
 
#23 ·
Well, if Dr. Ron approves, then it must be right.....WAIT!
I've been wanting to get his off my chest for awhile now-

I respect what Dr. Ron has done for the hobby, but I think the vast majority of people on the boards are taking everything he says as the gospel. I think we should all be a little cautious of this. I imagine, though, that the hobby has always had their "man of the moment" whose every word could change the hobby overnight. Some names come to mind..Adey, Thiel, Jaubert, Sprung, Weiss, Sy, etc., etc.

OK, Now back to the topic.

(Doug L.-this is is no way directed at you...just a general observation. Thanks for the feedback!)

Brooke
 
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