Questions from and for the Newbies...

[sboice]

Questions from a newbie interested in a FOWLR tank:

As hopefully a lot of you can remember, it can be a daunting task to enter this hobby. Please have patience and where possible answer my questions with facts not opinionsJ I hope this thread can serve as a useful resource to other newbies.


1)Being that I want to create a great FOWLR tank during the initial cycle, when is it safe to add the LR???

2)What kind of lighting should I attempt to get? My goal is for a 75gal Bow front or a corner tank. Again this will be a FOWLR tank. Should I even get the ‘hood’ that comes with the tank from the LFS? Can it support the changing light requirements as my experiences grow?

3)Is a protein skimmer required?

4)As for the substrate, I want sand. Being in the NE (MA) I will try to find Sandown Play Sand and seed it with a bag or two of live sand or gunk from GARF. When is it ok to add it to a new tank without killing the live stuff? How deep does the sand bed need to be?

5)Filtration!!! Darn this is a huge topic.J I have been recommended a Canister (FluVal), just LR/LS, BioWheel, etc. What is a good one for a FOWRL tank? Does a SUMP play into this role?

6)SUMPs. Do I need one? Can I add one later? I know how they work and placement, but doesn’t filtering a smaller amount of water from the sump tank then feeding it back to the larger contaminated supply diminish the filtering activity greatly causing the filter to work much harder then just filtering the supply from the get go?

7)RO/RI. Reverse Osmosis/RI??? Can I start my first cycle with chemically treated tap water? If not, I will get the RO unit upfront. Does this unit treat the tap water from the house supply or does it only treat the tank water?

8)Cycle, Cycle, Cycle. I have been told to initially fill the tank, then add salt and wait 24 hours to dissolve all the salt. Should the filter be running at this point? I would imagine not since the filter media may collect the salt, right? After the first 24 hours, Kick on the filters and lights and add some crab (or maybe even LR) so get the nitrogen cycle started. Wait till the levels spike, and then add either a damsel or clown. One guy recommended a yellow tang stating they are quite hardy –true?

9)You reef guys and girls really seem to know your stuff, and reef resources seem more prevalent then FO. Can anyone recommend any FO dedicated boards or is staying with you reef folks a better option and why?

[Brooke]

[quote]Originally posted by sboice:
Questions from a newbie interested in a FOWLR tank:


1)Being that I want to create a great FOWLR tank during the initial cycle, when is it safe to add the LR???

I think cycling with live rock is the best way to go. You can monitor ammonia levels and do water changes during the cycle to help protect life on the LR. (this can lengthen the cycle process) You will be amazed at what will come out of your rocks. IMO, cycling with damsels is cruel and should not be done.

2)What kind of lighting should I attempt to get? My goal is for a 75gal Bow front or a corner tank. Again this will be a FOWLR tank. Should I even get the ‘hood’ that comes with the tank from the LFS? Can it support the changing light requirements as my experiences grow?

I'm not familiar with how much room there is in these hoods, but I would choose VHO lighting on a icecap 660 ballast. You just can't go wrong with this set-up and you can easily apply it to a reef, if you ever decide to go that route. You would need to be able to add a fan to the hood if you use VHO's.

3)Is a protein skimmer required?

I'd say yes.

4)As for the substrate, I want sand. Being in the NE (MA) I will try to find Sandown Play Sand and seed it with a bag or two of live sand or gunk from GARF. When is it ok to add it to a new tank without killing the live stuff? How deep does the sand bed need to be?

Just an FYI, your live rock will seed your sand bed with critters. A sandbed of 4" is good, IMO.

5)Filtration!!! Darn this is a huge topic.J I have been recommended a Canister (FluVal), just LR/LS, BioWheel, etc. What is a good one for a FOWRL tank? Does a SUMP play into this role?

Most people who keep a FO usually have a higher bioload than they would in a reef. So, supplemental filtration might be necessary...or might not. If you allow your tank to mature gradually, LR/LS and a skimmer could be all that you need. If you do choose another kind of bio/mechanical filtration to supplement, please watch your nitrate levels, do regular water changes, and change the filter media or clean it often.

6)SUMPs. Do I need one? Can I add one later? I know how they work and placement, but doesn’t filtering a smaller amount of water from the sump tank then feeding it back to the larger contaminated supply diminish the filtering activity greatly causing the filter to work much harder then just filtering the supply from the get go?

Sumps are great because they can hide all of the mechanical items that are unsightly in the display tank. With the proper size pump, you can have a turnover rate of your tank capacity 5-10 or more times an hour. I don't think any hang-on filter can come close to this.

7)RO/RI. Reverse Osmosis/RI??? Can I start my first cycle with chemically treated tap water? If not, I will get the RO unit upfront. Does this unit treat the tap water from the house supply or does it only treat the tank water?

You technically could start your tank with tap water..but I wouldn't. Get an RO/DI unit. I would only use it to make water for the tank, and maybe for drinking water. I don't think you can hook it up to your main house supply. Plus, you don't need to shower in RO water .

8)Cycle, Cycle, Cycle. I have been told to initially fill the tank, then add salt and wait 24 hours to dissolve all the salt. Should the filter be running at this point? I would imagine not since the filter media may collect the salt, right? After the first 24 hours, Kick on the filters and lights and add some crab (or maybe even LR) so get the nitrogen cycle started. Wait till the levels spike, and then add either a damsel or clown. One guy recommended a yellow tang stating they are quite hardy –true?

If you haven't already...buy a few reference books. The conscientious marine aquarist by Bob Fenner is an excellent beginner's book and explains quite well how to set-up and cycle a tank. You can mix the salt in the tank with a couple of powerheads...but this is the *only* time you can add salt mix directly to the tank. I would probably pre-mix the salt in rubbermaid containers, buckets or a new trash can and add it to the tank after you have your sandbed in place. Then you can aquascape the tank with your rocks and add your water. As mentioned above, cycling with LR works quite well. After your tank has cycled, give it time to mature. A couple of weeks after the cycle is over, you can add your clean-up crew (depending on what kind of fish you are going to keep). Definately do not add a yellow tang to the tank first. There are a couple of disadvantages to this. One being that tangs like a stable environment and a mature tank and two, tangs can act aggressively towards any fish added to the tank after them. Clowns are a pretty good choice for a first fish, but please let your tank mature for as long as you can stand it before adding them.


9)You reef guys and girls really seem to know your stuff, and reef resources seem more prevalent then FO. Can anyone recommend any FO dedicated boards or is staying with you reef folks a better option and why?

---

You can stay with us Most of us have kept FO's at some point or started our reefs from a FOWLR. Many folks here have more than one tank. .

You will find lots of varying opinions on everything in this hobby and there are few "Facts", if you will. The best advice I can give you is arm yourself with lots of information but reading and learning as much as you can. Next advice is have patience and carefully research the animals you want to keep.

HTH-
Brooke

[Alice]

Welcome to The Reef Tank sboice!

There are some boards that have separate discussion areas for FO tanks, however, it seems that most of those don't get as much discussion as just the "general forum" as a good portion of people with reef tanks also have FO tanks, if only to house that one favorite fish that just won't behave itself in a reef

You are going to get opinions when you ask questions; there are many ways to set up a tank and many ways that will work, depending on the dedication of the hobbyist. "Experts" argue the "facts" all the time, and much of that is also just their opinion. Not to say that there aren't some well proven theories, ideas and practices out there but this hobby is one of flux and change, not only as a whole but in our own tanks.

Your choice of tank with a FO is purely a matter of personal preference. FO tanks do not need the intense lighting of reef tanks so if this is going to be a showpiece in your house, go for the attactive hood that matches the stand or build a nice one of your own if you are handy and want to save some $$.

Cycle, cycle, cycle is correct. Patience is the key and there's no getting around it if you want to do it right and not kill off tank inhabitants due to unstable/toxic water parameters. Water is *the medium* for your tank; do it right the first time and start with RO, DI or RO/DI water. However, filling the tank up with just plain tap water first, to check for plumbing leaks, and then draining the tap water back out is really a good idea.

If you are going to have live rock in your tank, use the rock to cycle the tank, do not add live animals for cycling. Add them only when the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are all at zero and then start with your clean up crew (lots of snails, a few hermits). After that has settled in for a month or two, add fish s l o w l y. One or two at a time, to allow the tank time to adjust to processing the new bioload. If you want a tang, add it last and in a 75, you should carefully pick the one you like the best of the smaller species as a 75 really isn't big enough for two.

Canister filters can and do work fine for FO tanks but will take careful maintenance. A sump is always a good idea along with a good skimmer. If you go with an acrylic tank, adding a sump is a breeze, glass you have to deal with overflow boxes or drilling, but again, the choice of a glass or acrylic tank is a personal choice. You can get glass tanks ready to go, for a price.

A lot of the learning in this hobby centers around a ton of reading; books, message boards, articles on the web and in print. Then you are able to have a knowledge base from which you can pick the sytem that is going to work best for you.

I'm sure I haven't answered all your questions, and most of it was probably only my opinion but we're all here to help.

Good luck and welcome!

~Alice

LOL, Brooke beat me to the "post this reply" button

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Alice ]

[FishDaddy]

Hi Sboice,

I second everything that Brooke and Alice said!!
What is your goal for a Fish Only Tank? What type and kinds of fish are you interested in keeping? A 72 gal. tank sounds big but in the realm of saltwater, it is a modest size and will support a modest bioload of fish.....none of those bigger Tangs or Triggers as adults would be suitable. These really need a 6' tank.
I heartily reccomend getting and reading Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist before buying anything. This will give you an excellent overview of not only tank setup options, but much good info about fish and tank occupants.
I have both a reef and a FO tank (for a Moray Eel). Both are setup with LR/LS/Skimmers. With addition of high intensity lighting, my FO would be ready to go as a reef tank. Except for lighting, the general principles are essentially the same, except FO tanks generally have a higher bioload and waste removal issue.

I would also recommend using a RO/DI from the outset. Good water quality is very important for the health of the tank.
Again, welcome to The Reef Tank!
Dick

[sboice]

Thanks everyone. Very good responses so far. Just what I was looking for!