newbies and not so newbies

RWD · 10-08-2000, 08:22 AM

I have noticed quite a few posts and received a few e-mails lately about what types of additive I use or what is the"secret" to have a nice reef tank. My answer is always the same. Regular water changes and a calcium reactor for calcium replacement. A few years ago I would have given a very different answer. I used to dose Combisan, iodine, strontium, etc. You name it I tried it. There's always something missing. Well, heres the secret. Time. Give your tank a chance to get established and ballance out. I say a minimum of 2 years before a good tank turns into a great tank. Don't be in a hurry.

I was talking to a fellow reefer(hcs) a few days ago about how some reefers are always looking for the ultimate additive. The polyps don't open or the color is fading or some other problem. There MUST be something I HAVE to add to correct this. Sometimes something is out of whack (check your parameters) but sometimes the coral is the way it is and that's that. I have many cutting's of a finger leather all in the same tank lit by the same light. Actually some are right next to each other. Why is it that one is a beautiful shade of tan and the one 3" away is much more pale? Who knows? Sometimes that's the way it is. Another example are my xenia. All of them came from the same frag. I have small frags all over the tank. Most pulse like mad but a few inches away some look pretty bad. What's going on here? Maybe I should dump in some "Super Duper Reef Candy" and correct this right NOW!

Let me say that I'm not an expert and I don't have all the answers. I like to take the hands off approach and ride it out. I'm not saying that ALL additives are not necessary, I just choose not to use them and my tank looks great. My point is have a little patience and give the corals a chance to come around before any drastic measures. Corals are much more durable than we think. I think it was Sprung that answered the question from a reefer "Why did my coral die?" His answer was " Because it lived" It's very true even if you don't follow Sprung. Bob

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Check out my Reef Site

10-08-2000, 02:12 PM

Good point Bob, I dont have a calcium reactor
use kalk drip 24/7 and supplement with B-Ionic and DO REGULAR WATER CHANGES. I do 4-8 gal water changes weekly depending on how the tank looks and available time. This = approx 5% volume. Other than that I try to leave things alone and let it do its thing.
Patience is probably the hardest thing to aquire but the best course in the long run. There is so much truth to the reef adage" Nothing good happens in reef overnight, only bad"

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I thought I was me, but I was wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

Rick O · 10-08-2000, 06:05 PM

Hey Bob,

I just checked out your website for the first time. Nice reef.

Rick

horge · 10-08-2000, 07:52 PM

Yeah, Bob, reefers (and not just newbies) are a gold mine for additive manufacturers. Many problems in reef tanks ('slime' algae, shrivelling coral, etc.) can be solved not via introduction of the latest bottled glop, but rather via careful tweaking of what's already on the table (flow rate, lighting, --especially livestock profile, etc.)

It can be awkward sharing information on what's good and what's a waste of cash (even what's outright harmful to your reef tank), because then you're straddling the line between information sharing and product promotion.(As a certain friend with a keen interest in Scaphopods might tell you, it can be a co-ooold day in Montana when you even so much as give the impression of doing a comparative study on such products)

Alice · 10-09-2000, 09:03 AM

Interesting thread, RWD; one that has gendered rather lively debate in some quarters. Dr. Ron Shimek spoke at both the Aquarium show here in my hometown and at MACNA and a good portion of his talk was centered on the fact that he believes that we do our tanks much more harm than good by dosing iodine, strontium, et al, to our tanks. He said that there are only three ways that things that go into our tanks come back out and that is by precipitation (turning into a gas), removal (water changes) or absorption (by our critters). Most of animals in our tanks cannot directly absorb the additives we put in our tanks in the form that the additives are in and the critters that do, don't need them at the levels that we induce and can be toxic to them.

I spoke with him regarding a two part calcium additive, such as B-Ionic and he said that even that was unneccesary...the only things that we should add to our tanks are top-off water, saltwater and kalkwasser.

BTW Horge, I passed on your highest regards and he said that he happily returns them

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

FishDaddy · 10-09-2000, 09:28 AM

Great points raised by all!

It seems that our society is so technology driven and accustomed to fixing any ailment with a "pill", that many try to apply this to reef tanks. Everything that goes into the tank or any device we connect to it affects its balance and ecovironment(my new word

).
I'm glad Dr. Ron said:

Quote:

the only things that we should add to our tanks are top-off water, saltwater
and kalkwasser.

There is a similarity in reefkeeping and football: blocking and tackling win games and good husbandry and attention to the basics make successful reef tanks.

Dick

gregt · 10-09-2000, 09:36 AM

I hate to spoil the intent of this thread, as I agree wholeheartedly.

But I have to say I think Dr. Ron's statement was perhaps a bit over-simplified.

After all, if you take those words verbatim then we can all save money on fish food.
However, I don't believe fish can live off nothing but top-off water, saltwater and kalkwasser.

The basics are indeed the most important part of reefkeeping, but we can't forget about the specific needs of the creatures in our care.

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-Greg
Greg's Aquarium Links

Alice · 10-09-2000, 03:32 PM

I seriously doubt that Dr. Ron or anyone else for that matter was indicating that we should not feed *food* to our tanks; the subject at hand was *additives*.

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[This message has been edited by Alice (edited 10-09-2000).]

gregt · 10-09-2000, 04:46 PM

I agree Alice, but the fine line is determining what is an 'additive' and what is a necessary 'food'.

When you are talking about an organism that is as foriegn to us as corals are, 'food' can be a very difficult thing to define. Some of the 'additives' could possibly be defined as food, so where is the line drawn between over-doing it with additives and starving our critters?

I think this is the difficult question that inexperienced reef keepers have trouble answering, and the reason they may over-do dosing.

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-Greg
Greg's Aquarium Links

10-09-2000, 07:58 PM

Oh boy, this might prove interesting. On the one hand I see where Ron is going with his statement, however I asgree with Greg that some people might interperet that to mean feeding isnt necessary. Remember it wasnt too long ago that "all corals needed was a lot of light". I dont use a lot of miracle products on mt reef anymore, not that I did as most are real expensive, but I do have my regiman down to water changes, Kalk drip 24/7, though its not a sealed system so I,m not sure how effective it is. I will have a better idea once I get a pH meter and switch to better Ca and Alk test kits. I do know that while things went well enough with the corals I had for the 9 mos or so I did kalk only, I never got a real noticeable burst of coralline growth till I started supplementing with 30 mils each of B-ionic twice weekly. Within 2 weeks I looked at the tank and went Holy Cow, it really started taking off. In the last 4 months I have a whole lotta new coralline growing on all my aragrocrete base rock that is in tank over a year and a half. So I must surmise that the kalk drip method I am using isnt optimal, or that the BI is providing some missing elements that are needed. FWIW

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I thought I was me, but I was wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

Alice · 10-09-2000, 08:16 PM

OK...let me clarify this before somebody threatens to sue *me*

Dr. Ron said that the only *additive* he believes we should had to our tanks is kalkwasser. He feeds a variety of frozen foods, for the most part, to his critters. He feeds frozen lance fish to his anemone and some of the Formula frozen foods as well get fed to his tank inhabitants. I'm not going to try to put words in his mouth, just what I recall from his talks (I took notes) and our short personal discussions. He mentioned that feeding phytoplankton and even Coral Vital (which has the same nutrition as frozen brine shrimp, but in a more useable form for most corals)is a good thing.

What he believes we don't need to add is Strontium, Iodine, two-part calcium additives (just kalkwasser for calcium and to stabilize pH and Alkalinity) and the like.

I'm sorry; I realize that the line between foods and additives may be confusing, heck, *everything* is kinda confusing when you are first starting out, so for that I apologize.

Sincerely,

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

Alice · 10-16-2000, 12:19 AM

^top^

horge · 10-16-2000, 05:12 AM

Semantics

On some conceptual levels, food and 'additives' are coëval, and even indistinguishable. However, a layman does not confuse the two.

To get to the blunt skippy (layman's rules)as far as corals are concerned, food is swallowed via the mouth, digested in the mesenteries/gut, (and the poop goes back out the mouth, but I digress, ugh).

Anything sorbed from the water, bypassing the digestive system, cannot under layman's rules be called food, hence the prevalent use of the more convenient term 'nutrition' when discussing such things.

If Ron's treatise was on 'additives' in layman's terms (the verbal forum and target audience would suggest that), then food would not be in consideration, any more than lighting or heat would be.

HTH