live rock shipped in water

reeftanktime · 04-05-2003, 02:21 AM

If live rock is shipped in water does it still need to go thru a cycle? A lfs says he is getting live rock shipped direct from the ocean without ever leaving the water. Is this safe to add to an established tank?

grazzit · 04-05-2003, 02:31 AM

Sorry I can't answer your main question, but I think that if the rock is in stagnate water for over a day I'd be leery about putting it straight in my tank.

I think your LFS is lying to you though, the price of shipping LR and water would have to double the price of shipping, I find it hard to believe that he would have it shipped in water, damp same day air maybe but shipped in containers of water, no way would cost too much.

thefatman · 04-05-2003, 02:55 AM

it's all a sales pitch man!! i read an excellant three page article yesterday on all the sales pitches associated with "live" or "pre-cured" rock. i can't rememebr where it was, but when i get home from the office in the morning, i'll go through my history files and post the link for you. in the meantime, keep a few things in mind.

it doesn't matter WHAT they do to the rock before shipping. it doesn't matter HOW they do it. it doesn't matter how LONG they do it. the only thing that matters is that they are SHIPPING it. shipping the rock will always cause die off. period.

the rock that stella got the other day, had tons of life on it, but it no doubt still had some life forms dying off due to shipment and being pulled fro mtheir natural surroundings in the ocean. her supplier recommended a high salinity dip for at least 30 seconds. to get rid of any unwanted hitchhikers. personally i would have even then turned around and cycled for AT LEAST 24 hours 9which stella may have done) and checked for ammonia and nitrite levels.

if you are buying rock, i would recommend cycling it at least long enough to do some tests on the water to see what it's doing. after a day if you see ammonia going up or nitrites, then you shouldn't put it in the display tank yet. unless yo uare getting rock from your LFS that has been cycling in thier tanks for a few weeks, i would do it agian at home. even getting rock that has cycled at the lfs, i would still put it separate for at least a day or two at home, and then do a high salinity dip.

you've got a number of fish, in a 45 gallon tank, you wouldn't want them damaged or stressed due to a sales pitch from someone trying to make money from you. keep in mind the lfs depends on you to pay his bills. but the folks here or elsewhere on the web, they don't. our only goal is to see you succeed i nthe hobby so we have one more person to communicate with

once yo uread the article i found, i think it will make a lot more sense, and you would never even think twice about adding rock without doing SOMETHING to it first. i'll post it as soon as i get back around 9 this morning.

grazhopr · 04-05-2003, 08:30 AM

I totally agree with TFM.

Very cool avatar reeftanktime !

StellaMN · 04-05-2003, 08:58 AM

I agree with Jay too...

I only 15 lbs of rock (split the order with a club member).....and the rock was only added as quickly as it was because I was home on vacation this week and was able to constantly monitor the tank parameters. I had water ready to do changes and my tank was do for a water change as well.

The LFS in our town is famous for telling people they can add live rock directly to the tank and I know of a couple of people who have had their tanks wiped out....

Just be careful....if it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.

Jodi

mojoreef · 04-05-2003, 09:55 AM

I agree, you can count on the fact that the LR, since getting harvested has spent days sitting in the sun, nevermind just being shipped dry. The scratch and sniff test is the best way to tell if the rock is still rotting. MOst algae die off a tank (depending on size) can handle it is the sponge that is both in and on top of the rock that will give you problems. What I do is take the rock and give it a good smell, the dieing sponge will smell like rotten eggs, once I located it I carve it out (remember some is always below the surface of the rock) it is usually black. once this is done I take my compressor hose and give it a good blow. do this a couple of time and usually the rock is ready to go in. Remeber it is all about the smell. eggs= bad, sea smell =good

mike

thefatman · 04-05-2003, 11:22 AM

here is the article i was looking for. took me forever to find it in my history. i think you'll enjoy it. it's long reading, but very informative!

it was written by angela chanelli of themarincenter.com

http://www.themarinecenter.com/rockbs.htm

my favorite line in the article is :

Are we groovin here? If not, marvel at this brilliant formula...
H2O animals - H2O for several days = dead H2O animals.

hope this helps dispell some belief in sales hype.

jay

wasabi · 04-05-2003, 02:26 PM

i have a different opinion of t.b.s tampa bay saltwater rock that comes shipped in water.(yes they ship it in water) i stuck 50 pounds,1/5th of my rock vlolume and never saw any spike or negative effects the rock had no die off and smelled like fresh cured rock it was teeming with life. the only thing i did do was pull off the chicken liver sponges. although i now have several that are growing and thriving. yes, i ended up with a mantis who has been in my reef for a year and a half without any noticeable damage. i have 500 snails and hermits so maybe i just dont notice any missing.

thefatman · 04-05-2003, 03:10 PM

i'v enever purchased TBS rock, but i can see why you would feel that way, and i probably would too. i've read all of the articles on their site (great reading there for thier history!) i think it's a little different though because they are collecting in the gulf, from thier own "field" and shipping straight to you, in water. wheras rock coming from the bahamas, or hawaii, or fiji, etc.. is being collected, sitting in the sun, then shipping to the U.S. then shipping from the distributor to your door. so i'd be a little less likely to drop it in my tank.

if i were to order from TBS or Walt Smith, i'd probably just do a quick high salinity dip for about 5 minutes, then do a water change, and check the parameters after a few hours. to me, it seems as if their rock is a lot like buying from an lfs, that has had it in thier tank for a while, it's already cycled, so no need to do it again.

but buying anything exotic from overseas, no way would i not cycle for at least a little while.

JennM · 04-05-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thefatman

keep in mind the lfs depends on you to pay his bills. but the folks here or elsewhere on the web, they don't.

Ah but a good LFS wants REPEAT business and will advise you properly. A good long term customer beats a fast money grab any day of the week

Find and support a GOOD LFS that knows what they are doing, and you'll have a friend for life.

Good advice in this thread -- let thy NOSE be the judge - I do

Jenn

thefatman · 04-05-2003, 05:56 PM

true true very true.. folks like JEN

wish i had an LFS like YOURS in my town!!! actually the new place i've been going to lately is very helpfull and knowledgeable. they spend time with me even when they know i'm not spending that particular day (cus they KNOW i'll be abck another day :-) i bought my wetdry and skimemr and pumps and live rock from them, because htey spent well over a month of days talking with me and giving me advice, without me ever spending a buck in their shop..

there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule :-)

btwe: jen, gave you a good plug on my links list...

JennM · 04-05-2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thefatman
they spend time with me even when they know i'm not spending that particular day (cus they KNOW i'll be abck another day :-) i bought my wetdry and skimemr and pumps and live rock from them, because htey spent well over a month of days talking with me and giving me advice, without me ever spending a buck in their shop..

there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule :-)

btwe: jen, gave you a good plug on my links list...

Thanks for the plug

Always appreciated.

It's definitely a give and take relationship -- if we give you our time and experience, we can then take your money

Seriously though, time is an important investment in each customer. Nobody EVER leaves here with livestock without having been quizzed first

I usually demand a water sample from "first timers"... My regulars can, of course, since I know all the gory details about their tanks -- funny how fish types LOVE to talk about their systems to anyone who listens

I've spent lots of time talking and listening and no they don't always spend money that day, but *generally* they come back -- today I had a couple considering a new SW tank -- they have a 100 g FW tank, and he'd read all kinds of conflicting information on line (hehehe) and after some time spent here, he left considering whether to get a 29 or 55 to begin (my bet says 55 *g*) and he's considering it all overnight before making a decision (no impulse buying - I like that). Methinks I'll earn a long term client in that couple...

At least I hope so!

Jenn

MontanaRocknReefer · 04-05-2003, 06:20 PM

Jenn! Send ya a e-mail to the store!! Check first time buyer's water? Mine would be scarey!!

Nice to have LFS owners like you guys!

JennM · 04-05-2003, 06:26 PM

Well I once had a lady attempt to buy turbo snails for her FW tank

I wasn't serving her, but when I went to ring her up I asked a few questions... believe it or not I actually ASK to make sure people have a tank... that would have been a mess if she had put them in her FW tank

One thing I've learned is NEVER to ass/u/me anything -- by checking a water sample that's usually a good way to weed out the ummmm - well the ones without a proper tank.

It covers my backside too -- if somebody buys something and puts it into a nasty SW tank and it dies, then they come back to get their "guarantee..." well, if I didn't test the water before, I had no control over what happened. Covers my assets, the customer's and most importantly, saves the critter from additional stress/death...

A little TLC goes a long way.

Jenn

thefatman · 04-05-2003, 07:14 PM

yeah i like the idea of testing water FIRST.. my new lfs does the same thing. he honors refunds/exchanges on animals that die within 30 days. but he requires a water sample first. if your water is bad, he wont do the refund/exchange until the water tests good. it would probably be a better idea to test PRIOR to the sale, as you are. could save a few bucks, or more, in the long run.

well time to put my new standpipe/noise reducer together and see how it works. but shirley uses the same one so it MUST work