FO and FOWLR question

[thebigblue]

hey guys

how do people setup fish only tanks these days?...i am setting up a 125 and i am finding out all the costs of this size reef tank...i have heard that i can just setup a tank with some LR and LS and skimmer and slowly turn it into a reef tank with better lighting...

will a deep live sand bed be a problem with fish only? ...i know your not supposed to clean the sand with a LS bed but with all that fish waste i would think it would be needed?...(in a FO application)...

i understand that a "berlin" system is LR and LS with skimming and good lighting...wherein the LR/LS is your biological filter...with a FO tank is this still the most efficient option?...even with a heavier bio-load?...should you go another route and effectively take your biological filter "out" of the tank and into a wet/dry or similar filter?...

i would imagine you would still skim but would you need any other type of mechanical/chemical/or biological filtration?...

i really hate to give up on a reef tank and go fish only...if i only purchase part of my LR now and add some over time (say 10-20#'s a month) will this work?...or will i have to deal with ammonia spikes with every addition?...

just trying to way all my options...

i also have a soft spot in my heart for triggerfishes...will these guys do damage to LR?...i know you really cant keep them on a true reef...

thanks

brad

[FishDaddy]

Hi Brad,
IMHO, you can use the same LR/LS/skimmer setup for FO as with a reef. It does take the sandbed alone 5-8 months to mature enough to support a modest bioload and 12-18 months to handle a full load by itself but the LR will carry the load while the DSB is maturing. The protein skimmer is an integral part of the system for removing excess organics....these will be kept in the water column by adequate circulation and exported via the skimmer.

I have a FOWLR for my Chainlink Moray that only needs better lights to support corals. There are a few shrooms in there so I guess its technically a reef, but they don't show much growth or colors as the ones in the reef under VHO's. It's about a year old now and operates just great.

For a FO tank, wet/dry or even cannister filters (with very frequent maintenance and cleaning) will do the job as fish can tolerate some higher Nitrates than corals. Many have FOWLR tanks and supplement the LR/LS with mechanical filtration. But I think the cost of a good wet/dry system is really about the same as you might spend for LR/LS. I would just put the money for the cost of wet/dry into more LR. If you don't have enough LR/DSB to support the load, you can always supplement filtration with a cannister or even hang on power filters.....as mentioned, these do have to be cleaned very frequently.

If you add LR incrementally, you can avoid potential Ammonia spikes and new cycles by making sure your new rock is fully cured by keeping it in Rubbermaid tubs with good circulation and water parameters kept consistent with the main tank until your tests show the cycle is complete. Adding even "fully cured" live rock directly after shipping will usually result in some die off and mini-cycle.

Triggers are fine with LR...of course they may eat small crustaceans that come with the rock but again, a FOWLR setup is just fine for Triggers or other predatory fish. Just keep them properly fed to minimize any potential for predation.

There are many different ways to have a successful tank. If you sift through members' aquariums in the Tank Specs section of TRT, you will find all sorts of setups.
HTH,
Dick

[jegel]

Triggerfish will eat the critters from the live rock and can eventually kill all the life in them. Plus, if you want to later change to a reef you would have to get rid of the trigger.

If you go for the FO then a wet/dry filter can help but also costs way to much if you later change to a reef as you won't need the wet/dry anymore.

If you get a large sump you could do the FOWLR but keep the live rock in the sump. That way it would act as your filter system but be away from the trigger.
Go with the deep sand bed and only do a small amount of live sand to get the dead sand going.
That will startup a good live sand bed.
Eventually when you want to go to a reef tank you could get rid of the trigger or any other hostile fish and move the live rock up to teh tank. By that time the sand bed would have some time to have matured and the live rock will start to add to its diversity.
My2Cents

[GaryG]

From experience.

I had a FO tank for a few years. I slowly converted it to a reef tank (and in the process upgraded to a larger tank). My FO tank had sand on top of an underground filter meaning I had to vacumn it. I slowly added LR. Then moved everything over to the larger tank (but eliminated the underground filter and added a wet dry). I added more live sand and stoped vacumning. Each week for a couple of months I added about 3 to 5 pounds of live rock. Then I started slowly adding coral pieces. All of the fish survived the transformation and move to the bigger tank (I did have a few deaths after the move but it was due to a sick fish from my LFS, not the move). I now have a full blown reef tank. After a few months I took out the mechanical filtration system and the biowheels that had been brought over from the FO.

Included in my fish stock was a clown trigger (I love triggers also). He is one of the fish that died in the ich breakout caused by the sick fish (I now use an isolation tank for all new fish). The trigger was always picking at the live rock. I really missed having a trigger but now with the reef tank all of the reading I have done indicates it would be dangerous to replace him.

So I started a new FOWLER tank at my office just so I could have a trigger. I now have a Picasso Trigger in the FOWLER. I watch him all day long while I am supposed to be working (which I should be doing now!). He picks at the rock and sand all day. He takes a big mouth full of sand and blows it out through his gills. Sometimes he blows water out of his mouth at the rock to see if he can uncover something. He also "blows over" the snails and hermit crabs so they are upside down and exposed and tries to eat them (sometimes successfully). Certainly not good behaviour for a reef tank.