Dumb Dumb Dumb questions NEWBIE

[Tannir]

Hello all,

I am brand new in this hobby I dont even have a tank yet. Ive got some books ordered to start researching the info out but would like to ask a few DUMB questions. Before I do so Ill try to explain what my wife and I would like to see happen.


we would like to set up a 300 gal bow front tank. thats the extent of my knowledge at this point. now for the questions

1. realistic, aprox, how much per gal does a tank cost to set up?
2. what is the difference between a reef and a marine tank
3. how much would a 300 gal tank stocked weigh?
4. what special preps should I take to put a 300 gal tank on an upstairs floor

I know these are dumb questions but im just starting and hoping to get an idea of cost, time involved, and general info.

Thanks for the time
T.

[HOT CORAL]

dont believe there is a manufactured 300bow, so it would cost more since it is custom, at least $800 , i have seen up to 540 gal bow custom from OCEANIC

wieght will be for a 300 :
tank: at least 400lbs if glass, less if acylic
salt water: 2400lbs
stand and hood: at least 400lbs
live rock if you do reef: 600lbs fiji and tonga branch

cost: look to spend several thousand to do it right, but actual depends on what type and how much living organisms you put in it, coral run at least $30-40 each (you will need a lot), and you can look to spend at least $2000 on the live rock, about $1700 in lighting, then you need pump, skimmer, fish, sand, etc.

bow tanks are hard to find for sale used, they go quick

this hobby is like the stock market, it takes patience and planning, but the rewards are high

[Allyson]

I guess I'll be the first to welcome you to The Reef Tank!

I'm going to leave your questions to be answered by someone with more knowledge than me but wanted to say when beginning a reef...especially as large as you're talking about...THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS if you want to get it done right without a lot of casualties or money down the drain. And you picked a great board to get your info from...you can actually ask questions here without being ridiculed for your lack of knowledge.

One thing I would recommend is buying any equipment you can online unless you get an incredible deal locally it'll save you alot of $$$.

[beach bum]

WoW! 300 gallons! Nothing like jumping headfirst in the deep end! It should be a lot of fun, but (besides the weight issue) will be very expensive depending on what you want to stock it with.

The biggest setup (and cost) difference will be whether or not you want to stock with fish, soft, or stony corals. That will determine lighting, filtration, and basic equipment necessities. A "reef" setup just means that the focus is primarily on the corals, with the fish being more accent pieces, or to create a specific biotope setup. Some fish will eat, nip, and basically show very little respect for your pretty new corals!

The weight of a 300g tank, plus equipment (sump is a heavy accessory) would be in the neighborhood of 2 tons.

hth

[FishDaddy]

Hi Tannir,

Good to have you with us! There are no Dumb Questions in this hobby!

What books did you order? My preferences for which ones to read first would be 1) Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist and/or John Tullock's Natural Reef Aquariums;
2) Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals(This is a must have for coral keepers); and [i]The Reef Aquarium, Vols. I & II [/II] (This set is more encyclopedic but a valuable reference and good information).

A marine tank is any saltwater tank. A reef tank is a marine tank that includes living coral. Reef tanks, as opposed to Fish Only (FO) tanks, require stronger lighting and more attention to water chemistry.

A Fully setup and stocked reef tank is sometimes estimated as costing about $50 per gallon of tank size. It is a considerable investment in time and money. Money can be saved by shopping around for the best deals but it is important to buy the best quality equipment and livestock. It is an axiom that "It's cheaper to do it right the first time".

Most modern constructed buildings should support the weight. I would recommend placing the tank so that it sets across the floor joists and not parallel to them. The tank is going to weigh well in excess of 3000 lbs. but the weight will be spread out.

This is an exciting and rewarding hobby but there is much to learn so read, read, read! Please feel free to ask any questions on the board, particularly before making any purchases. Our members have just about every experience known to reefkeeping among them so help is available.

Again, Welcome to The Reef Tank.
Dick

[Tannir]

Thanks for the info, as im new to this hobby I only have a basic idea of what types of fish and such that I would want any insight here would be helpful. I would like to have an eel, an octupuss(Yea right, i can just see all my other fish becoming expensive food for that thing) I do want corals, live rocks, aneomes(sorry for the spellings no books to reference yet) fish and well as close to a full blown ocean reef in my living room!

any suggestions on a good custom tank maker and set up would help alot thanks again for all the input and putting up with the newbie.

Fishdaddy I got the first book you mentioned on order ill look into the second, Thanks



T

[Fishaholic]

WELCOME

If you are planning on having an anemone, it takes planning. You must determine what type of anmone you want and then construct the layout of your tank to meet its requirements. Then you wait, and wait, and wait...... It takes a well established tank to succesfully house an anemone, only 5% live past two years in aquariums as opposed to hundreds of years in the wild, That number is raising though.

It would be best to wait a year after starting a tank to add one. keep in mind it will be the size of a grapefruit - basketball once grown.

[mikeMersot]

I would guess that a 300 gal will weigh a little over 2 tons, my 150 is just over 1 ton, I dont know if I would place it in a upstairs room unless you strategically place it so the weight is absorbed uniformly, still I would be scared. Personally I dont know if I would jump right into corals and anemones, they take some skill to keep healthy, I would probably start with live rock and fish, maybe some shrooms. Read all you can before you start as even marine fish can be quite difficult to keep happy. I would not get an octopus, those things are devils and require some special hardware, like a perfect fitting lid with no holes. They can and will squeeze through any opening. I once had one that lifted up its hood, which had about 25 lbs of weights on it to keep him in, then walked across the carpet and into the tank on the other side of the room, retrieved a crab, took it back to his tank and ate it. Not worth the trouble if you ask me. Just take everything slow, because if you rush it you will not create a good environment for your creatures and it will sour you on the hobby. Good luck!

[Stang69]

Like was said above no question is a dumb one in this Hobby and uneducated shot in the dark can cost ya Big time.

mike Ya needed to take that octpuss on David lettermans Pet tricks show heheheh Sorry


jeff

[firechild]

Welcome to TRT,
300G is an impressive starting size and lots of $$.
It is not possible to estimate cost per gallon for any tank, especially a reef tank. Basically you need to consider what type of method you are going to use, the natural method wuold be my choice and is advocated by many on this and other boards. Then you have to decide what you want to keep, lighting and other equipment will be dependent on whether you want high light and calcium demanding corals.
Things to consider:
substrate; a deep sand bed is advocated in the natural method and a good depth is 4-6" if fine sand (<1mm grainsize). and approx. 1lb/G of LR, more or less may be used depending on how you want the reef to look (e.g. open spaces or a rock wall) and what type of rock you use (Fiji rock is lighter than some other rocks).
nutrient export; the best thing to do is buy yourself a nice big protein skimmer, these can be expensive but are usefull pieces of equipment used by most reefers. Other forms of nutrient export are macro alga which can be grown in the main tank or in a refugium which is a area away from the tank where you grow macro alga and it provides a refuge for small useful invertebrates.
Calcium; there are a few ways to maintain calcium levels in reefs and the amount you need to add is dependent on the removal (e.g. stony corals and clams use more than soft corals). Methods of calcium regulation vary in ease and respectively in price, starting from kalkwasser (limewater) cheap but time consuming and relatively difficult to Ca additives, to Ca reactors (extremely easy [once it is set] but expensive).
and finally lighting; u can run a happy healthy reef tank under NO (normal output) fluoros by keeping soft corals and zoanthids. As you increase the light need of the species you want to keep you need to move to more expensive lighting which is best determined before you spend a cent on lights. There is nothing worse than replacing lights for each increase in light loving species, if you want to keep SPS (small polyp stony corals)and clams then buy metal halides at the start.
HTH,
Aaron

BTW, for more information on any piece of equipment there is a search function and ask as many question as you want, its an expensive hobby as it is, there is no use in spending extra on mistakes.

[GaryG]

I switched from a 55 gal to 150 gallon in April of 2001. I'm an accountant so I keep track of everything. I use Quicken to track all of my personal expenses, and I just ran my year end reports for 2001. I had an expense category for my reef tank. I was shocked (but I guess I should not have been) to see that I spent over $6,000 in 2001. Mind you I had a lot of livestock and accessories that was carried over from my 55 to my 150, so I would have spent more starting from scratch. If you use that as a guide you can figure at least $12,000 for 300 gallons fully set up and stocked.

{Keep in mind that is just what I spent - my wife also buys things occassionally for the tank and she has her own accounts - so it was actually more}

[Minnreefer]

A few questions, where are you located? There may be a good local reef club in your area and you can go and see different tanks and different set-ups. I would also recomend going to our sponsors, they tend to have about the cheapest prices out their with good quality stuff. I think for a reef a good rough guide is: 1# of rock for every gallon, Tank turnover which is how much water is going thru your tank should be at least 5X to 15-20 GPH so on a 300 gallon tank you need a pump or pumps that can push about 3000 gallons per hour GPH, Lights, I would recomend at least VHO or MH and a general rule is 5-12 watts per gallon. Protien skimmer, get a big one. These are just some of the mechnical things for a reef. I would go to www.premiumaquatics.com and do some looking, or try www.atlantisaquatics.com for some of the other stuff. HTH

JOn

[semajftw]

First off -- WELCOME!!!!!

I'm a newbie too. So i will leave most of your questions to the experienced. But i do want to comment on the placement of the tank. It concerns me about placement of such a heavy tank on a second floor of a residential building. I can talk from experience here as I am a Structural Engineer. Dick was right about putting the tank perpendicular to the floor joists and not parallel (good job Dick). But that should not be the only consideration. Since the wieght of your tank is going to be high, and the foot print of the tank relatively small (structurally speaking) You need to locate the tank near a bearing wall in your house. (Not all walls are bearing.) Most outside walls are bearing walls but this is not always true. The tank should go next to a bearing wall (not a partition wall). You can not put the tank in the middle of the joists. The weight and the distance to the tank will be a sure sign of disaster. Plus any water damage that may occur. The best bet is to figure what the floor construction is and where the bearing walls (or columns) are.

And dont forget about other considerations for placement of your tank -- such as, by windows or drafts -- the more experienced can answer that better.

-JAMES

[Tannir]

Thank you all for the information there have been several posts with questions that I will try to answer, but first i just wanted to again say Thank you. You all have made me feel welcome and at home, thanks.

Now to the questions answers and info

about the anemones and oct. I will eventually get the anem. (wishful thinking on the Oct maybe someday) I am not going to jump in and blow my budget. If its worth doing its worth doing right the first time.

The budget Ive decided on is about 11K I may have to Build the stand and hood myself and would like any input on the specs of supporting a 300 gal bow front tank. would 2x4s be ok? should I use Steel? I understand the entire bottom must be supported using an acrilic tank how far should supports be on the bottom of the base? any info here would be helpful I took look at the flooring (basements got a drop ceiling) The tank would be going across the joist
the joists are 2x 10s and the tank would be on a Load bearing wall with a hallway wall underneath in the basement. so It shouldnt fall through the floor (Emote Crosses fingers) I live in Ga if anyone knows of a club or such around let me know please. I intend to post photos and a walk through of the entire set up and growth of the tank as it happens.
I have heard that ozonators(Spelling sorry) cause everything to become brittle and only last for a few months any input here would be great.



Thanks again for all the info
T.

[Doug1]

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